Language is an issue. Culture is another. Most of the Dutch people that I've met via Internet have been, like you, easily as literate in English language and pop culture as the more intelligent native speakers. That doesn't mean that you'll ever be comfortable with it. I wrote a couple poems in French while I was in highschool. Two of them were memorable enough to survive the religious purges that decimated my notebooks between 18 and 21. One is a bilingual poem inspired by the opera Carmen. The other became a passionate series of poems in an enjammed dimeter that leaves the reader as breathless as befits the subject matter. It was worth doing. If it was the only thing that I had to do with my life, I would do it well. As it stands, I am fortunate to be able to write as much as I do. ...and the site, well, you're right. Largely because the posters *ARE* the critics. My point, ill-made as it was, is that we can scarce expect to attract better when we have a rabid dog in our 'midst. It's a shame to lose a talented individual who has already found the site and endured for as long as you have.

No, it's got nothing to do with Rockmage or anyone else. Wat I meant is that posters and critics are basically on the same level. I quit because I'm not making progress. I couldn't, not with a language not mine.

Cool. Excellent feedback! I will work on an edit. New/no first stanza, & free verse.

Dovina - ...it should all be 'A' material. Me - We'd love to have our best work come out everytime we put pen to paper, but that is unfortunately not so. zodiac - Nobody's said that. Probably everybody here knows... that they'll end up simply throwing away 99%... We're probably like 3 blind people describing an elephant. We should be doing our best to write 'A' material. We don't always do as well as we'd like to do. Most of our efforts will end up in the can. That would be the trunk, leg and (umm) tail of the matter. I threw out almost all of what I wrote in highschool, but I regreted it so much that I've kept everything since then. Editing what I've already written is how I prepare my mind to write more - like priming a pump. A small amount of it probably should be thrown away, but almost everything I write becomes pretty good eventually. By 'eventually' I mean 3 to 10 years. After that amount of time, I know how much I like spending time with the poem, which gives me some idea of how others might respond. If I was writing full time then things would obviously go faster. The poems would mature much more quickly. I would have more in the "pipeline." I would probably also learn how to write directly into the computer rather than writing on paper and typing it in afterward. I think that I'll turn on "revision tracking" in Word and see how much it messes me up. I certainly write enough prose and essay-like material in worse text editors.

"...don't ever forget who those critics are." If I understand correctly: rockmage = kaolin fire This may not be "American Idol," but we have our own Simon. I think it would be easier to tolerate the abuses to which this kind of site is prone, if it was not the system admin who was the most obvious perpetrator.

By the way, I've cleaned out my desk and move on. Thanks to all of you who took interest in my poems.

>>and afterward they'll feel bad about defending it so long to internet critics<< I don't. And nobody should. Keep an open eye for sensible advices but don't ever forget who those critics are.

I never said that I was going to be grammatically correct. Honestly, I know when something is wrong, but I like the 'built-in' mistakes. They show more unbridled emotion.

re "We'd love to have our best work come out everytime we put pen to paper, but that is unfortunately not so." Nobody's said that. Probably everybody here knows, deep down, that they'll end up simply throwing away 99% of everything they've written and afterward they'll feel bad about defending it so long to internet critics.

Sorry, that doesn't cut it for me. Maybe it'll cut it for someone else and maybe that person will be more handsome than me or a billionaire publisher or something, but I kind of doubt it. I already said what way rotten. 1) Grant now my petitions For which I make claim is redundant, and hits me kind of like fingernails on chalkboards. Again, you wouldn't say "I make claim for my petitions". Even praying-type people don't. You do this every time you try to keep a participle from dangling and if you don't watch out you're going to get stuck in that posture. 2) I've kept With passion for religion As tools for advancement is silly, and sounds so unlike prayer that you can't even say it's supposed to be bad it's prayer. 3) The third stanza.

I think what they're trying to say is 'soars' means 'flies around', while 'sores' means wounds and is probably what you meant. It doesn't make sense to say "inoculate the flies around".

This is the part of every discussion we have, where, whatever I've objected to, you say 'no this is just about one specific person', and then I have no answer. That's how we know the conversation's over. Good.

That's not the point. The point is it's grammatically incorrect the way you have it.

I certainly will work on it. Thank you.