zodiac
replying on Figment by Dovina
18 Oct 2005, 4:34 AM
Ha. I just remembered why I still love you, after everything.
May I steal your last line? It's great - could use it in lots of places. But it doesn't seem to fit here.
It's all there: Guy walks into a bar, drinks a beer, pulls a gun, grabs the girl, runs.
I appreciate your wanting to make them represent all these things, but if you don't try to make them represent AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE THINGS well, you're not doing very good poetry. Ambiguity is 99% of the time just sloppiness.
You can stand in the middle of something. You can't stand in amidst it.
There is a journey tree
Standing in a wide river
Where a waterfall crests
Into a sea of fire
- is the easiest thing I can think of.
Pigeons and doves are the same species. Most "doves" released at dove-releasings are really trained homing pigeons.
I was just using someone else's "hypothetical". Unfortunately, it was Dovina's. You're wrong thinking hypothetical implies a "realistic" situation. Recently on poemranker we've had hypothetical worlds where, among other things
- humans evolved with hairy asses,
- I'm not wearing pants, and
- people communicate using only lies.
An image like your tree is nice for a color-by-numbers painting over the TV, the kind usually depicting lighthouses standing against the storm, or rainstorms looming over a small Alpine cottage. If you mean it to be a story, or poem, or story-poem, or poem-story, I think you need it to do something. I also think that'll be really hard to do. People who try tend to do one or more of the following things:
- Be walking along full of doubt and find the tree,
- Be swept along in the river and grab the tree,
- Remember the tree from youth and return to find it gone,
- Be Samuel T. Coleridge and zonked on Mexican brown.
Ok?
The dove and pigeon are open to interpretation as is most of the poem. They could represent racism, religion, sexism, social hierarchy, etc. The point is, is that they are practically the same but are more often than not percieved as different. The exchanging of feathers is the dissolving of these kinds of illusions. In my personal view (but this doesn't have to be the only view) The birds are actually a critique of the actual theme itself. Saying why save some and not all, why call some a pigeon and some a dove? In that way the poem is as hypocritical as life itself.
You can stand in the middle of a stream or shallow river just ask fly fisherman. Come on your really nit-pickin' with the whole strung together phrase thing. But if you make a suggestion that maintains the rhythm of the poem I'll be very greatful. One would imagine logically that both river and falls end in a sea of fire. It relates to journeys because it's at the end of the journey for those who make it to the tree, because its where you would want to be.
Sorry about the lack of punctuation and waterfall misspelling.
The birds can represent a lot of things but originally the idea came from noticing how simular doves and pigeons are and yet how differently their percieved and treated. The exchange of feathers being the desolving of this illusion between the two.
PS: If you take the personified meanings of the birds it becomes sort of a critique saying that the innocent and the gullable aren't so far off from each other.
I thought more symbolic or fictional than hypothetical. Hypothetical tends to imply a realistic situation to me.
I was inspired to write this when one day I saw a tree standing in the middle of a stream. I made it a river to make the tree appear more powerful. The rest is just metaphor for a story that in itself was a metaphor for a story (Not that you needed or even wanted to know that).
I look foward to your tutelage.
As I said above, I actually started with the title.
And I agree with you, I never thought this one was much good. I just couldn't get the wording right.
Thanks for the warning. I wasn't going to buy it anyway.
I don't feel that the dove and the pigeon make any contribution to the theme.
My questions are, why pigeon? Why dove (and please, let it not be purity and peace, cause that's way too hackneyed...) and what is the significance of exchanging feathers?
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to stand amidst one thing. If you've just got to stand amidst, it'll have to be amidst parted waters or something such, and who wants to do that?
Also, waterfalls should just be waterfall. Or it should have brinks.
I'm confused, does the waterfalls ends in a sea of fire, or the river? At any rate, it's too many strung-together phrases: the tree that's amidst the river that's at the falls that end in fire. Split them up, make some new sentences.
I don't understand how the tree relates to (and presumably helps) journeys. Apparently it STOPS people from journeys to the bottoms of the falls.
Rivers in "rivers rage" should have an apostrophe, probably before the s. Some regular sentence punctuation would help to. If you're having trouble deciding where, try writing it out in paragraph format and seeing where it doesn't make sense.
I thought the birds exchanging feathers was striking though. I have know idea what they mean.
Responding to your and Dovina's comments, the refuge you're talking about is the hypothetical itself, so of course the tree doesn't fall.
I'd try not to rhyme "glass" and "glass" in stanza 2. Other than that, kind of said-before. Some of it's a little touching, but not "Blue Bayou" touching.
We weren't put here, we just all happened to be here at roughly the same time.
Ha. The word "bland" seems too bland. Game, set, match.