Re: a comment on Dreams by Tiffany	24-Mar-04/10:12 AM
http://www.yforum.com/race41-50.html I'm going to go with the "for genetic cooling" argument; a)
Re: a comment on Dreams by Tiffany	24-Mar-04/7:50 AM
Sure, DA - I'll come out and play with you. I really don't know for sure. I've traveled quite a bit around the states here - seen some big lips. But I know I've seen pictures of black people with very narrow lips too - so, I guess I don't have a full representation of the population in my head. I guess we could banter on details regarding lips, or noses or dicks, or butts. I will say this though, and it applies to physical characteristics directly - the average black person is definitely _blacker_ than the average white person. why do you ask? Surely you are able to make that determination - or does it require stereoscopic vision?
Re: a comment on Dreams by Tiffany	23-Mar-04/10:35 PM
Yeah zodiac, about that - Arrogant and ignorant at once. Nicely done. (Class my ass. Yours just got out of one, what - 2 years ago?). How you pull an accomplished black poet born in the [19]60's (and still alive pretty sure) into a discussion about sonnets is fairly astonishing "...for the political purpose of showing that black people can steal white peoples' art forms" Especially with such a globally idiotic statement about stealing white "peoples" art forms - (!). How nice of you to be PC about not calling it white "men's" - wouldn't want to offend the ladies, now would we? Hypatia - take this or leave it, cuz I'm done after this, but - The deal with sonnets is about how it carries *an idea* NOT about the meter or rhyming structure. 14 lines is [nearly] universal, the rest is *certainly* not. Its about _transformation_. you will see this if you read a few dozen, less if you know what to look for. What to look for is that they take an idea and build on it, usually in 4 parts. 1. (theme is introduced, 4 lines typical) 2. (theme is developed, 4 lines typ) 3. (theme is exemplified or reflected, 3 lines typ) 4. (a logical or emphatic close, 3 lines typ) Or, more loosely, "this thing", "is like", "is exactly like" - "THIS". A great sonnet makes these transitions in a transparent way, and may do it without rhyme, or fixed meter. Yes, some popular types have well defined rules italian/Petrarchan, sicilian, Elizabethan/Shakespearean/English, Spenserian, Alfred Dorn, etc etc etc - you will find these all over the web. They still perform this transformation. even 14 lines is up for grabs, btw. George Meredith used sixteen lines, Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote sonnets with 11 lines (ten-and-a-half, really). Lots of others you'll find on the web and in magazines with alternate numbers/counts. There are several contests solely to come up with new sonnet forms. Even very well-known poets would take traditional sonnets (14 lines iambic pentameter) and mess with the meter (frost, ee cummings, etc). Sorry for my ramblings but it really bugs me when people put on the blinders and become inflexible when it comes to, OF ALL THINGS, poetry. Its just silly and it comes from people who just don't get it. (Racism aside)
Re: a comment on Dreams by Tiffany	23-Mar-04/6:22 PM
hypatia - actually rules for sonnets are pretty not strict. Trust me that I've been up and down this a buncha times in a buncha places. The only real "rule" is 14 lines. Beyond that... soo many flavors and sooo many names.
Re: Sitting in a damp refrigerator box, wondering (ODE) Basque by zodiac	23-Mar-04/11:04 AM
glosa?
Re: Dissenting voice by richa	23-Mar-04/8:09 AM
"Kivi veereb"? I like this one quite a bit - do we need the last line?
Re: My reflection by singinkygal	22-Mar-04/7:57 PM
I'm going to echo caffrey - but elaborate by saying the “too many” words are precisely the ones you've put in to sound like “poetry”. Here's a test - take out the rhyming words - does the meaning change? If it doesn't - why have them? You word choices should add value. You've got shattered twice, btw - and five "t"'s between them. And my pet peeve, extraneous prepositional phrases. Try not to trade meaning for rhyme – what you are trying to convey (the idea of which I like, btw) is complicated enough as it is – focus on that. Maybe, as an exercise, make the same poem without rhyming?
Re: Zin by caffrey	22-Mar-04/7:30 PM
no. Sorry. Too much poetry, not enough profundity.
Re: urge purged by caffrey	22-Mar-04/7:29 PM
I don't "get" the last stanza, but I like the rest quite a bit. I hangs just on that edge of tongue-in-cheek. works for me.
Re: Ramblings of Senility by Lifeboatman	22-Mar-04/7:25 PM
Nicely constructed, nicely done.
Re: a comment on Poetry in action by Bobjim	22-Mar-04/6:17 PM
Never anything but.
Re: a comment on Poetry in action by Bobjim	22-Mar-04/5:29 PM
Thats quite a different example/definition. And if I want to fuck with you. I'll fuck with you, but that's just *way* too easy for my tastes.
Re: a comment on Poetry in action by Bobjim	22-Mar-04/12:34 PM
btw - what does he/she say is the correct count?
Re: a comment on Poetry in action by Bobjim	22-Mar-04/11:47 AM
lol - I understand - no worries.
Re: a comment on Poetry in action by Bobjim	22-Mar-04/10:38 AM
thats the sorriest definition of iambic or pentameter I've ever heard.
Re: a comment on Poetry in action by Bobjim	22-Mar-04/10:36 AM
Ah, most sorry to disagree - limericks have no syllable count, just 3 long lines and two short ones in an aabba format.
Re: Poetry in action by Bobjim	22-Mar-04/8:54 AM
nothin says lovin' like a limerick.
Re: Puritans by zodiac	20-Mar-04/6:14 PM
Meaning aside - which is fine, the flow of this is a few extra words past something that I might like very much. It has a musical flow to it that I often strive for. But I'm not thrilled with some of the simple descriptors and imagery - while the cadence is melodic, the language is uncomfortable. Does that make sense? windy warm formidable long and tenderly - could do without those, in particular.
Re: a comment on Voted Off 3/17/04 by capachijim	18-Mar-04/9:35 PM
American Idol.
Re: To all the assholes.. by KaytiaraFaith	18-Mar-04/1:24 PM
I think that pretty much sums up how we all feel, all the time. Welcome.