Re: a comment on WHAT KIND OF FOOL ARE YOU? by Joshua_Tree	3-Jul-05/7:27 PM
Language is an issue. Culture is another. Most of the Dutch people that I've met via Internet have been, like you, easily as literate in English language and pop culture as the more intelligent native speakers. That doesn't mean that you'll ever be comfortable with it. I wrote a couple poems in French while I was in highschool. Two of them were memorable enough to survive the religious purges that decimated my notebooks between 18 and 21. One is a bilingual poem inspired by the opera Carmen. The other became a passionate series of poems in an enjammed dimeter that leaves the reader as breathless as befits the subject matter. It was worth doing. If it was the only thing that I had to do with my life, I would do it well. As it stands, I am fortunate to be able to write as much as I do. ...and the site, well, you're right. Largely because the posters *ARE* the critics. My point, ill-made as it was, is that we can scarce expect to attract better when we have a rabid dog in our 'midst. It's a shame to lose a talented individual who has already found the site and endured for as long as you have.
Re: a comment on WHAT KIND OF FOOL ARE YOU? by Joshua_Tree	3-Jul-05/1:01 PM
Dovina - ...it should all be 'A' material. Me - We'd love to have our best work come out everytime we put pen to paper, but that is unfortunately not so. zodiac - Nobody's said that. Probably everybody here knows... that they'll end up simply throwing away 99%... We're probably like 3 blind people describing an elephant. We should be doing our best to write 'A' material. We don't always do as well as we'd like to do. Most of our efforts will end up in the can. That would be the trunk, leg and (umm) tail of the matter. I threw out almost all of what I wrote in highschool, but I regreted it so much that I've kept everything since then. Editing what I've already written is how I prepare my mind to write more - like priming a pump. A small amount of it probably should be thrown away, but almost everything I write becomes pretty good eventually. By 'eventually' I mean 3 to 10 years. After that amount of time, I know how much I like spending time with the poem, which gives me some idea of how others might respond. If I was writing full time then things would obviously go faster. The poems would mature much more quickly. I would have more in the "pipeline." I would probably also learn how to write directly into the computer rather than writing on paper and typing it in afterward. I think that I'll turn on "revision tracking" in Word and see how much it messes me up. I certainly write enough prose and essay-like material in worse text editors.
Re: a comment on WHAT KIND OF FOOL ARE YOU? by Joshua_Tree	3-Jul-05/11:58 AM
"...don't ever forget who those critics are." If I understand correctly: rockmage = kaolin fire This may not be "American Idol," but we have our own Simon. I think it would be easier to tolerate the abuses to which this kind of site is prone, if it was not the system admin who was the most obvious perpetrator.
Re: a comment on WHAT KIND OF FOOL ARE YOU? by Joshua_Tree	1-Jul-05/2:11 PM
We'd love to have our best work come out everytime we put pen to paper, but that is unfortunately not so. I maintain some delusions or pretensions of being published during my lifetime, so I hold back on posting anything until I have some measure of objectivity. Book and magazine publishers want rights of first publication if they are going to pay for a piece. Those rights aren't available if you've published the material in any manner, including self-publishing or posting on the Internet. Some people are prolific or polished enough that they could spew forth professional verse on a continuous basis. I'm not like that. I rely heavily on a system of constant revision to get the layers of flavor that I want into a poem. Like an accomplished chef, I might invite the opinions of others when working on an appetizer or a soup, but a new desert or entree will not see the light of day until it meets my demanding specifications. My B material is "vestigial, workable." When it comes to my A material, I'm rather intransigent.
Re: WHAT KIND OF FOOL ARE YOU? by Joshua_Tree	28-Jun-05/11:37 PM
I'm not posting anything here that I've written more recently than 3 years ago, so if someone thinks that I'm still that vulnerable, they're probably wrong. All snarky comments will be deleted. This is my "B" material. If I receive some constructive criticism that helps me turn it into good poetry then I'm happy with it. I'll not cast any pearls before rockmage.
Re: a comment on The Object of the Game by Dovina	28-Jun-05/4:07 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear at all. You did a great job of understanding the situation and an admirable job of expressing it. It's like a photograph - crisp and clear with the capabilities and limitations of that medium - and very good as an artistic photograph. End of discussion on this poem. What I think you could do superbly in a different poem is paint a picture of a moment or an almalgamation of the scenes that led to your conclusions. For example, are there items, odors, bits of dialog that illustrate his wallowing in hurt? That, too, would make a superb poem.
Re: Divorcing Tennessee by Dovina	28-Jun-05/12:15 PM
I would rather read the poem than the criticism, so I'll not join any existing fracas below. You have made up words, used an unnecessary archaism, butchered punctuation, thrown capitalization completely out the penthouse window... and it was worth it. The poem reads, at least to someone who has never been to Tennessee, like it was written by someone from Tennessee, or rather that these were the raw thoughts of the person failing to assure themselves of their decision. I love the beauty and artistry of the language as much as anyone, but I also love its flexibility. Someone with the skill for expression should be allowed to make the determination for themselves whether to use formal or free flowing styles to reflect their subject matter. Any elitist to say otherwise can go to Barstow as far as I'm concerned.
Re: Father’s Day by Dovina	28-Jun-05/11:55 AM
Subsequent reads turned up more posibilities than I had noticed at first.
Re: a comment on The Object of the Game by Dovina	28-Jun-05/11:44 AM
Nice piñata, abuelita. I think the ending works well. As long as it's about him, that's the most evocative ending you're likely to find while dealing concretely with the issue. It's an important approach and you improved on your excellent effort from before, earning well the 10 I promised. I'd also be curious about how you would approach this issue from a more abstract viewpoint. It's true that a man would think women are shallow if he never was available for intimacy, himself, but how would you illustrate it? I especially like the title. "Game" has potential to evoke a whole spectrum of emotions, depending on the experience and training one has in relationships. It is apparent here that the primary meaning is that of a competition and protecting his 'treasure' is what the subject sees as the goal. That being so, attempts to explain that the game differs from his expectations fall on deaf ears.
Re: a comment on RAGGED TIME MELODY by Joshua_Tree	28-Jun-05/11:08 AM
This is about a love song written for a previous lover that a man on the rebound is trying to pass off as being written for his new love. What follows from this 'white' lie is a string of awkward justifications that finally lead him to something approaching a real revelation about his emotions. Even though he never is truly candid about the song, some truth comes out of it. It's a rebound relationship, so it probably won't last anyway, but the experience highlights some things with which he need to deal before he is ready to consider a more serious relationship. Dirty laundry laying about should be an obvious image; I am hoping that clues the reader into the fact that the open window and door are more than they appear.
Re: a comment on WHAT KIND OF FOOL ARE YOU? by Joshua_Tree	28-Jun-05/10:46 AM
Verse 4, line 2 points back to the three types of fool in vv. 1-3. Now that you point out the weakness, I think it needs to be a little longer and mush more obvious. Verse 1, line 4 lost its time indicator in an edit that I should have reverted. There are plenty of empty words in that line that can be bumped for the needed clarity. Your comments are considered and insightful. Such feedback is the reason that I tolerate certain others.
Re: wasn't ready by hendrimike	28-Jun-05/9:20 AM
The transition from your metaphor to its application is always going to be difficult. One way around that is to put the situation in the title and stick with the metaphor throughout the poem.
Re: The Object of the Game by Dovina	28-Jun-05/7:47 AM
Somehow collective pain never has the psychological impact of individual pain. Poetry can address this in two ways. It can throw bare a single example in the midst of the chaos of pain or it lay the pain on in unstopping layers like some abuelita unwittingly building a bullet resistant pinata. You score for having something to say, for saying it well and for not being self centered in you communication. You just need to conciously decide on an approach and work it in order to get a 10.
Re: a comment on A Message from my Dreams by Joshua_Tree	28-Jun-05/7:32 AM
That's fair enough. This poem will stay posted, but it's going back into my work pile. I thank everyone for their comments.
Re: RAGGED TIME MELODY by Joshua_Tree	28-Jun-05/7:27 AM
Thank you Zodiac, others, for your comments before. The exchange turned out to be a fruitful one for me. I hope that feeling is mutual.
Re: To Brush, or Not to Brush, That is the Question! by Lenore	22-Jun-05/11:30 AM
Where's the motion? Is there some other excuse for inflicting these dreadful images and this poor grammar upon us other than your routine root canal?
Re: Today is very far away from a good day by Prince of Void	21-Jun-05/7:21 PM
Worth a 4. Giving you an 8 to balance out a certain putz who votes 0 for all poems posted by those who aren't among his chronies. Click on "view voting details" and taking whatever action you deem appropriate.
Re: Slam. by darby pyn	21-Jun-05/7:08 PM
Before you get too upset about someone voting you a "0," look at who it is. This system is subject to a few abuses and it appears that you and I are rockmage's victims. I urge you to join me in returning the favor.
Re: Father’s Day by Dovina	20-Jun-05/10:31 AM
This is didactic and you broke rhythm a the end with no effect. It would have been better if the poem balanced the positives of age against the negatives, presenting the young reader with the opportunity to choose what kind of old man he will be (and older readers the opportunity to re-evaluate their choices).
Re: If God Was a Nihilist by baughworm	20-Jun-05/10:09 AM
Is man good? It would be an important claim to make, especially if it is false. It is better to leave God or the gods out of the process of defining goodness if we wish to be included as good. The means of doing so usually involves obtaining instructions and a sharp instrument from the wife and/or mother of the reigning patriarch. One implication of a poem like this is that the pen might be the instrument.