Re: Wombs and wounds by Caducus	Dovina 17.255.240.138	5-May-06/7:33 PM
Love is the epitome of unexpected. Carry the living from fantasy to fraternity. Mine are beneath trees too, by merlot and a farm in the hills. Love is a new pair of shoes he bought me because "You are worth it." worshipped by a stallion man who healed my heart fron a dagger's blow. Love is a word it's definition is who gives it who leaves it who breaks it who grieves. I am a griever an unbeliever snatched to belief broken, but spoken clean unlovable become loved dark, lonesome, angry, sad taken, given mouth-to-mouth revived, a womb to sleep in to feel warmth again.
Re: a comment on Wombs and wounds by Caducus	Ranger 62.252.32.15	5-May-06/11:00 AM
What the hell, why am I marked as having voted? Oh wait, this must have been an edit of something else. Fair enough.
Re: Before Dinner by D. $ Fontera	Ranger 62.252.32.15	5-May-06/10:58 AM
I doubt dinner was on the menu.
Re: Wombs and wounds by Caducus	Ranger 62.252.32.15	5-May-06/10:55 AM
Hmm, not sure yet whether I like this or not. The setup is fairly simple but I guess it fitting for the mood of the piece. I'll have to reread it later before I vote.
Re: Cookies Won't Cut It by Sunny	Ranger 62.252.32.15	5-May-06/10:54 AM
The penultimate stanza was incredibly evocative, reminded me indirectly of something I read recently. Will return to this later with a more meaningful comment, for now have a token 8.
Re: a comment on “16 Monks in Procession-Bagan Myanmar” – by Pier Poretti by Sunny	Ranger 62.252.32.15	5-May-06/10:26 AM
Any thoughtful poetry will inevitably end up more complex than you first intend, trust me on this! The fact is that I gave this a similar sort of reading as to what I give my own recent poetry; it's not just about reading what's directly evident in the piece, it's the subtler layers which carry most of the meaning. And really, this just backs up every time I've said that reading other poetry improves your own poetic abilities - after all, I wouldn't have been able to interpret this even a few months ago. So thank you as well for giving me the opportunity to do so. I said I'd return with a more detailed critique, here goes. You start with the eternal religious analogy of 'Black and white' which would ordinarily set the scene fine. What might end up confusing people here is that both the black and the white are behind the monks, seemingly making them neutral observers. I'd suggest changing the first line to simply 'Shades', which also carries enough negative connotations of its own to suit the context. Stanza three I found incredibly evocative and crammed full of religious imagery. The tree is the faith (in a not dissimilar way to my last post), the elements bending are the disciples of that faith, who are fanning (sort of stirring up, encouraging) the arms of a higher priest as if making an offering (and of course there is the direct description). 'Perfectly centred' I think refers to an idea of universal balance. 'Planar dirt' is another good play on words, with the two-dimensional 'shallowness' of the nonbeliever or heretic, 'sly whispers' carries that theme (wind/lies). The use of 'fans' works in tandem with what I mentioned above as well. R.E. 'denying fog' - I missed that, to be honest. I think it was the way in which it carried from the 'forecasted showers' (prophecies, I think) suggested that it wanted to be taken in its most literal form. Then you have 'brave soldiers', which clarifies your meaning, and of course the final stanza which I think is an astonishing play on not just words, but names - again similar to elements of my last post, and something which always scores highly with me in poetry! Well, there's plenty of material in here that I haven't gone over; I don't want to leave the rest of the rankers with nothing to do ;-) and there are one or two words which I'd change, but other than that, a highly impressive and thought-invoking piece!
Re: a comment on Glorious Turncoat, I Shall Return by Ranger	Ranger 62.252.32.15	5-May-06/9:56 AM
An explanation...hmm. First off, while there is a 'purpose' to this, I don't want to claim any attitudes towards the content of this poem. It's up to the reader to decide what I think about the subject matter. As for the poem: The tree is Jesus. The caterpillar is Judas. The whole thing is a fictional dialogue between Jesus and Judas before the betrayal. According to the new gospel, Judas had visions of betraying Jesus and told him so, to which Jesus answered that he would do so because he loved Jesus. This poem is about the fate of both of them, and the last line of each stanza should (with a little thought) tell you the purpose of the piece. Whether I am pro or contra Judas in the poem is for you to decide. Does that help?
Re: a comment on “16 Monks in Procession-Bagan Myanmar” – by Pier Poretti by Sunny	Sunny 66.69.36.222	5-May-06/8:32 AM
I am sooo thrilled you GOT IT...didn't mean for it to be this in-depth, expecially w/ the extremely meaningful pic, but somehow people ran around in all directions over this one. I hated my revision, but I know that's what I HAD to do, while maintaining a bit of my own style, to narrate what I portray from the very clear depiction in my mind's eye...you got it Ranger!! Thank you, thank you & a few more your way :)! First of all, this IS a controversial peace because it's main, brightly photographed pics, are those of a form of religious character. I don't give 2 --- about that (don't like morrally what I have to say, don't bother reading it; I was never on a debate team or anything :), anyway, I went w/ the whole good & evil plot because of the colors, strictly the colors illustrated the drab, almost grey misery resembled the darkness the pure and holy munks were trudging against so faithfully, as to "deny it" - yes, as to sever themselves from it's dark nature & dirtiness (all personification, but can't you see how this is all fitting??) To back up my theory, their bright customes represented the good, the LIGHT, that can be shone right threw in the heaviest of fogs, conquering the bad onece again with "the lights"> to be looked up in referring to Buddism because "light-plan" is actually referred to in this culture, as when I describe these monks as "light-lovers" near the bottom of the stanzas. Feel free to ask or comment on any clarities or un-clarities I have or have yet to make. Your opinion is greatly appreciated here anyday!!
Re: a comment on Glorious Turncoat, I Shall Return by Ranger	amanda_dcosta 203.145.159.44	5-May-06/5:52 AM
Ranger, this piece is pretty good. The first two verses seemed to go well with me. But with the last verse... I think you aught to give me a bit of explanation. As I told you before, I have strong views against this gospel of Judas... but I'm willing to see your point on this.. so help me out. explain the jist of the third verse in a nut shell. I refrain from voting till then.
Re: “16 Monks in Procession-Bagan Myanmar” – by Pier Poretti by Sunny	Ranger 62.252.32.15	5-May-06/5:30 AM
Good edit. Instant thoughts (I will have to come back to this later as I am pressed for time at the moment) are that the monks aren't denying the fog exactly, but their faith is the only splash of colour in an otherwise grey, monotonous world. And it could also suggest that the faith which is to some people ethereal and misty is in fact very tactile and certain to them. Love stanza 3, I personally would have used 'weathered' instead of 'aged' as a play on 'vain' (great play on 'vain' already there though, narcissistic yet thin and empty - I liked that a lot). I'm not yet convinced by 'purge through in their cloaks' (I don't think the 'the' is meant to be in there), although 'purge' fits the overall context it seems a little awkward in that passage. 'Stone that pierces' is a really clever line. I took it to be a play on 'Peter', the rock upon which the Church was built, and then 'Pierre/pierce'. That to me was superb. Right, have to go - will return in a while.
Re: Death by rabbit by INTRANSIT	Dovina 12.72.35.48	4-May-06/1:19 PM
At least he knocked them on the head. That's humane, compared to slitting their throats while they hang shaking scared by their hind feet. Maybe you had this in mind also - feeling pain just before the warm trickle; that would not be so if they are knocked out first. You make too much of the container, I think. Does it matter what it's made of and lined with? It used to bother me too. Good poem.
Re: a comment on Glorious Turncoat, I Shall Return by Ranger	Ranger 62.252.32.15	4-May-06/11:54 AM
If I'm honest, I've been a little unfair on you all with this piece. It's really a 'context' piece, and was designed so. I wrote it in light of the recent announcements concerning this 'gospel of Judas' - but I wanted to see what people made of it independently of that knowledge. It was meant to be open to interpretation; I wonder how much easier you find it to read knowing where it came from though...
Re: Glorious Turncoat, I Shall Return by Ranger	ecargo 167.219.88.140	4-May-06/10:18 AM
I keep printing out your last several poems to think about and come back to comment on but not getting around to it. I will come back to this! First impressions: lots to like but could benefit from some pruning and tightening of imagery.
Re: Death by rabbit by INTRANSIT	ecargo 167.219.88.140	4-May-06/10:16 AM
I likes it! "as they hung"--this threw me off--is someone holding them or are they (as suggested) sort of dangling on the lip? Also, think about dropping "lined with the" ("by their rear legs over the Rubbermaid can, the black maw of a Hefty bag"). Hmmm. maybe. I'm always split on brand-names in poems; on the one hand, I like the detail, on the other hand "Hefty" and "Rubbermaid" are a little distracting. I dunno. Nitpicking. Ending line is ace. Nice work.
Re: Gale of Death (Paradelle) by MacFrantic	ecargo 167.219.88.140	4-May-06/10:10 AM
"Billy Collins claimed that the paradelle was invented in eleventh century France, but he actually invented it himself to parody strict forms, particularly the villanelle. His sample paradelle, "Paradelle for Susan" (c1997), was intentionally terrible, completing the final stanza with the line "Darken the mountain, time and find was my into it was with to to"." Hee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradelle That said, some decent lines in this, but I don't think the form, the repetition for repetition's sake, adds anything to the poem. Also, while I like the wordplay to a point, sometimes the meaning is pretty fuzzy. Probably was fun though. ;)
Re: Moon (edit) by Caducus	Ranger 62.252.32.15	4-May-06/8:27 AM
Last line I think should be "tide's cataract leaves", however I'm wondering if there's a bit of extra wordplay going on there. Are you using 'cataract' in the 'downpour' sense there as well? Because it sort of feels like you are - particularly with the widow imagery, a woman crying at night maybe?
Re: Death by rabbit by INTRANSIT	Ranger 62.252.32.15	4-May-06/8:22 AM
A picture I prefer to avoid.
Re: Gale of Death (Paradelle) by MacFrantic	Ranger 62.252.32.15	4-May-06/8:19 AM
Another good paradelle, I'd rework the end of stanza two: A Death of me in thunderous shrouds Solemn gale returns to shadow Or something like that.
Re: Glorious Turncoat, I Shall Return by Ranger	lmp 141.154.134.3	3-May-06/3:08 PM
i will need to come back to re-read and cogitate further before voting. i do like this, and the images of a tree hewn down always is painful to me, even if it is hollow inside.
Re: a comment on Glorious Turncoat, I Shall Return by Ranger	Ranger 62.252.32.15	3-May-06/5:52 AM
I like the suggestions for the introduction (I wasn't happy with that passage when I posted it). 'Needle' was meant as a description of the leafless branches, I shall adjust that accordingly. I won't give the game away yet as to what/who the tree and the caterpillar represent but the poem certainly is set in biblical narrative. The cliche I wanted in order to make the characters clearer, but I'll change it to something similar. Thanks for your suggestions - as always they're useful to the project.