Re: a comment on Mr. Campbell's final journey by jroday	al-naafiysh 204.215.33.8	15-Jun-05/2:33 AM
Who know's not trying to be funny
Re: Unclean by Dovina	zodiac 212.118.19.246	15-Jun-05/2:30 AM
Is this poem about Muslims in the 9th century? First off, in response to your "cast out of society" comment from my post, you should know that Jordan (along with Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and many neighborhoods in Egypt and UAE) is middling liberal for Islamic countries. Here, a raped-but-married woman would either, one, say nothing and neither would her husband or, two, be encouraged by her family to return to her parents' house, not go outside very much, be unemployed, and not have many friends besides her family and close neighbors. In other words, she'd be exactly as she was before she got married and mostly as she was WHILE she was married, except she naturally wouldn't be hoping to get married again. (This, incidentally, is the situation of about a dozen women I know whose marriages have broken up for some reason or other.) You must understand: In almost no part of the Middle East do women BELONG to any society they can be cast out of. If your raped woman came from my part of the world, she would be divorced but IN EVERY RESPECT indistinguishable from any other woman in the country. In other words, she'd be practically invisible. The more real danger (and this is what separates us from Saudi Arabia and non-liberal Muslim countries - that is, it's bad enough here and gets worse there,) is that she'll be killed or beaten into some crippled state by her husband or brothers. You can call this "cast out of society" if you want, but it's really more accurately "cast out of earthly existence altogether." That said, about the poem. Yes, Mohammed did in fact teach respect for women. All Muslims know this. In fact, most Muslims know that after Mohammed's famous statement that men can marry "one, two, three, or even four women" he immediately added, "but you have to love them exactly the same amount." Most Muslims also know that, this being impossible, it's essentially the same thing as saying you can't marry more than one. And most don't care. Muslims here (and at least in the parts of the Arabic world I see on tv) are about as Muslim as most Americans are Christian. Pointing out that Muslims aren't exactly adhering to the letter of their faith is pretty much a losing battle, and about as useful as pointing out that Christians aren't either. That is to say, not useful at all. Stanza 2: "disgrace" made me laugh. Stanza 4: Robbers! Tee-hee. For one, there are much fewer violent robbers in the Middle East than rapists. As a cover-up, this would be totally unbelievable. For another thing, and more importantly, a woman violently robbed will be as much disgraced as a woman raped; it's just as Haram, and it will simply be assumed that she was raped, too. As far as my experience goes, she'd be just as well off as if she'd admitted the rape. If you're going to say your Muslim friend tried this dodge - well, good luck to her. I don't see how it worked. Also, "cast her out for Allah's good": No non-insane person in the Arabic world would say or think something like this. Everybody here knows Allah is already all-good. It's an enormous sin to think he could be improved or kept from taint, i.e., that something could be done for his good. In reality, she's cast out for the men of the community's good. All repression of women under Islam, from the Qura'an down, is justified as a way of protecting MEN who, exposed to women's charms, even a wisp of her hair, would not be able to keep themselves from sinning. It's flattering, see? The women's good is secondary. Obviously, a woman who's already been raped would pose double the temptation to men; that's why they need to be protected from her. Don't ask me to explain why. I can't. Good poetry, though.
Re: Unclean by Dovina	Blue Magpie 212.205.251.91	14-Jun-05/11:42 PM
I think you have made a good attempt here, to describe something that is worthy of poetry. However it needs a little work. Have you actually read the Koran, Mohammod teaches great respect for women, the attitude of Islamic men depicted here, derives from the pre-mohammadan culture (I Recommend "The Arab Mind" by Raphael Patai), so some mention of the need for forgiveness and understanding that mohammad taught might have been better than than line 2 as it is. Disease might be better than virus, because it is more encompassing. fear.(,) Not(neither) humiliation or disgrace, pain, or (the)memory of his face; There is nothing poetic in the modern trend to simple leave words out, I mean words that grammatically should be there, such as the definite and indefinite articles , in fact it makes a sentence look ugly. injury as a robbers act, the injury as a robber's act, to cast her out for Allah’s good. to be cast her out for Allah’s blessing. Any Muslem would tell you no man can do something for the good of God, God is already as good as it is possible to be. They do things in God's name, or in order to satisfy God's commands
Re: a comment on Students by Blue Magpie	Blue Magpie 212.205.251.91	14-Jun-05/11:26 PM
Dear Dovina, I am honoured that you have taken the time to consider this poem so well, and to reply three times. All I can say in defence is that perhaps my students here in Greece are a little different to those you know in where-ever. OK I admit they are not all that bright but there are definately some who like look hard to find the limits and to go beyond.
Re: a comment on it's tough at times by Jigg	Bankrupt_Word_Clerk 71.130.56.2	14-Jun-05/8:06 PM
I'll let you know if either happens for me.
Re: a comment on Yellow Am I by lil_evil_boi	lil_evil_boi 70.68.76.244	14-Jun-05/7:31 PM
Thanks for the 9. Glad you liked it.
Re: a comment on Beach Volleyball by lil_evil_boi	some deleted user 81.69.23.196	14-Jun-05/6:24 PM
No kidding (...) It keeps amazing me how Americans don't blink an eye when in movies people get literally cut in half but scream murder over a split second nipple on tv. A COVERED nipple. Europe's still hiccupping.
Re: a comment on Beach Volleyball by lil_evil_boi	some deleted user 81.69.23.196	14-Jun-05/6:15 PM
There are laughing kids around. You want this poem get slapped with an R-rating?
Re: a comment on Students by Blue Magpie	Dovina 69.175.32.185	14-Jun-05/5:06 PM
12 though has got to go, and 13 is nonsense.
Re: a comment on Beach Volleyball by lil_evil_boi	Dovina 69.175.32.185	14-Jun-05/4:56 PM
Shouldn't that be "Castles and coolers and tight bum flesh"?
Re: She Cries by holden_caulfield	LilMsLadyPoet 205.188.116.139	14-Jun-05/4:53 PM
I see some awesome lines and words in this....keep writing! These caught my attention>"Stars dripped from the sky/Leaving me black and empty." "This mud veined blood stained place." (mud-veined, blood-stained place) and "Fall gently upon us like a snowflake on a winter branch, Naked and brittle
Re: a comment on Students by Blue Magpie	some deleted user 81.69.23.196	14-Jun-05/4:48 PM
Include line 6, that's a nice one too.
Re: Beach Volleyball by lil_evil_boi	some deleted user 81.69.23.196	14-Jun-05/4:44 PM
Sun and sand and salt and sea Castles and coolers and flesh burned from bones Sharpened popsickles and terrorist mermaids Strangling seaweed and snipery squids Tremor waves, grinning sharks A beach boy's head, dripping red, tossed over a net
Re: Avian Child by Tekara	LilMsLadyPoet 205.188.116.139	14-Jun-05/4:43 PM
Smiling...someone after my own heart....looks like the stuff I wrote a LONG time ago! Fly! I am sure you meant to end with! Great line> I was born an avian child, /the winds intrigued, the skies beguiled. Form and format and puctuation and word choice...well...it needs cleaning up, but time will give you the polish you need...keep writing!
Re: Love Obsession (the stalker's song) by evergreen	LilMsLadyPoet 205.188.116.139	14-Jun-05/4:38 PM
posession? possession? Looks wrong in spelling, but I'm feeling too lazy to look it up, pretty sure double s's are in order... other than that...not bad. I would change the title though...leave off the stalker bit! A Dominant would say that obsession is a far cry from stalking. (And all the subs/submissives out there will be creaming to this song...LOL!)They are not one and the same. (Provided the "take you" you are speaking of here is not akin to "take' in the case of rape. I am going to assume that you 'take' does not refer to such a thing...therefore...I like it! (Even if it does seem like a copy cat of another song we all know!)
Re: song of the birds by rainbow	LilMsLadyPoet 205.188.116.139	14-Jun-05/4:28 PM
Note:people often get these confused. If you think: its > means it belongs to it! its pain, his pain, her pain. It's means >IT IS! It is pain! (I am sure you saw typo of "i smell the the forest") Other than that, I don't understand you moving from one feeling to the next so swiftly. You have the sun shining on your face, you feel its pain, you feel calm, so alive, then so alone, then as if you have nothing left, and you feel your pain. Think of this as a paining...how in the owrld would you paint this scene? I can't paint the picture in my mind, either...because you keep changing the scenery on me! Pick a scene and then paint it for me...make me feel it, smell it, hear it, see it. Either paint it as a painful picture, OR a calming picture...whatever, but pick one and make it clear. When you are proficient at that, then perhaps try to move from one scene into another, or paint the scene in the midst of a change.
Re: Beach Volleyball by lil_evil_boi	untamed_fierce 70.68.76.244	14-Jun-05/4:20 PM
Mediocre. Could be improved.
Re: Books by sacred_poet_me	untamed_fierce 70.68.76.244	14-Jun-05/4:19 PM
Very true. But some people just dont know how to enjoy a simple novel that contains knowledge and surprising plots. You should call this poem "For People Who Dislike Reading". Maybe this'll change their mind.
Re: Irreplaceable by elixir	LilMsLadyPoet 205.188.116.139	14-Jun-05/4:17 PM
I was wondering if you left out a word. Should there be 'to' in the second to last line? "I'd want nothing of that to ever come true" (or "ever to") I also wondered if it was a typo in: "If they force the morning light/ To shine MY dark and shadowy night". I wondered if it was meant to read "BY"? Also...just a thought...but "want" to be with you....seems a weak word for the kind of wanting you are doing here! I would do some brain-storming for a new word that better captures such a 'want'. I can think of several off the top of my head> yearn, ache, hunger. Or maybe 'want' would be fine if you changed "to be with you" to something 'stronger'? To lay with you....to dance with you...or better yet...to fly with you, to walk with you, or to love with you. Over-all I had to give this a high score, in spite of my thinking aloud here on the comments.
Re: 13 Pianos (after Wallace Stevens) by jconnors3	LilMsLadyPoet 205.188.116.139	14-Jun-05/4:02 PM
Several parts could stand, or almost stand, on their own as single pieces. (The last, the second to the last, and the 4th to the last, in particular.) You seem to start in one mode, switch, then get all loose, and then end with an entirely different form. It would be less cumbersome to read if it had more form, or followed a form of some sort, through the entire piece.