Re: a comment on A Schizophrenic by amanda_dcosta	amanda_dcosta 203.145.159.37	24-Jan-06/10:41 AM
Guess what, zodiac....... I live in a Mental Hospital surrounded by schizophrenia, bipolar affective disorder, depression, OCD, anxiety, alcoholism, substance used disorders, etc. Trust me.... I know more about schizophrenia than you'll ever know. ;-)
Re: A moment, homeward by ecargo	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/9:57 AM
You've inspired me to write a haiku. A 10 for doing the impossible. The last two lines in stanza 2 throw the rhythm off a little. I think "stands, locked and stillness" pretty much say the same thing so you could probably get away with losing one or two of those words and making the last two lines one. But let me know if you had a specific reason for those two lines and I'll change my mind.
Re: a comment on Best left unsaid (trust first instincts edit, w/thanks) by ecargo	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/9:39 AM
Good point. This is why I rarely change my poems. I just use the suggestioins as consideration for my next poem. I really just wanted ecargo to experiment with her layout and pick what she liked. So many times people write their poems and then don't even think about trying different things after they finish the first draft. I bet you go through about 7 or 8 drafts before you consider one of your stories complete.
Re: a comment on Best left unsaid (trust first instincts edit, w/thanks) by ecargo	zodiac 209.193.9.123	24-Jan-06/9:25 AM
I think there is a sameness of voice. (You don't see it reading journals because journal selections, as a rule, aren't workshopped; you see it from watching a lot of workshops.) The almost-inevitable result of workshopping IS a uniform blandness. Think of the poems you've workshopped: This guy says, I'm not so sure about your use of 'fuck' - isn't there a better word? This one says pallid as mushrooms seems a bit cliche; this one says he doesn't get ridged as a whale's mouth. This one says explore the sex imagery more; this one'd like more violence imagery. This says he didn't get it; this says it's too obvious. If you listen, your voice isn't your own; the poem's, um, unity is compromised. It's like democracy: with all the great inspired leaders and individuals in our midst, how do we end up electing the blandest, most anonymous President? I'm not saying don't workshop. I'm saying put something out for the first reaction, like or dislike, and to catch big mistakes. When people say they want shorter lines or more sex, don't change the poem you posted; write another one using their ideas, see what they think of that. Even then, half the time you'll get one responder who hates your poem for every one who loves it - so that, after all the workshops in the world, it's still the loneliest profession.
Re: a comment on A Schizophrenic by amanda_dcosta	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/9:20 AM
Is this PR, all these tens? Did you just pick up a publisher? Just kidding:)
Re: a comment on Best left unsaid (trust first instincts edit, w/thanks) by ecargo	ecargo 167.219.0.142	24-Jan-06/8:56 AM
The problem being . . . what, exactly? The workshop-y results? Why do you think journals are rejecting workshopped poems? Is it the sameness of voice, do you think? (Is there a sameness of voice? It seems to me as if there is, but I don't read a lot of poetry journals; most of what I read is in non-poetry-specific mags like The New Yorker and Yankee Mag, etc.--i.e., pubs w/ a history of, but not a focus on, poetry.) I don't mind longer, "nontrad" layouts or odd breaks if there's a purpose to it, but I think you're right that it's done more for "shock" value or "to be different" (though it's been done and done and done for ages now) than for any purposeful, thoughtful reasons.
Re: a comment on A Schizophrenic by amanda_dcosta	zodiac 209.193.9.123	24-Jan-06/8:38 AM
re "I have had no personal experience with a schiz" - The poem aside (I liked it), I wonder why you'd be compelled to write a poem about something you have no experience with. There are so many things you DO have experience with, insights into life in Goa or being a Christian in a place where Christianity is the minority religion that could really enrich us readers' knowledge - yet you (like Dovina with her Racism poems) might as well have written about life as a purple Mars-tortoise, for all you know of real schizophrenics. Why write about schizophrenia at all? Is it because Mental Illness (like Racism) is one of those capital-letter Topics For Poetry in our minds? Take my word for it: No poetry is really about Mental Illness. Or Racism, for that matter. Poetry touches on those things, but it's always firstly about your own experience. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. (Like I said, I did like the poem.) My suggestion would be, now write one about YOUR REAL EXPERIENCE. If you'll let me make another suggestion, I'd like it to be about being Christian in a non-Christian country. Describe walking to work past Hindu sadhus, hearing the Muslim call-to-prayer in the middle of evening mass, knowing the laws of your home country aren't based on your own moral code - whatever makes up your actual experience. I think that would be ace. Thanks.
Re: a comment on Best left unsaid (trust first instincts edit, w/thanks) by ecargo	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/8:29 AM
No harm no foul. No I really wasn't expecting you to use the format I suggested. I just wanted you to 'er-uhm' play with it and see what you could come up with. I'm more likely to nitpick a better poem like this one than a bad one.
Re: a comment on Best left unsaid (trust first instincts edit, w/thanks) by ecargo	zodiac 209.193.9.123	24-Jan-06/8:23 AM
Longer, narrower layouts scream to me, "workshop!" With a lot of journals explicitly rejecting workshopped or workshopped-feeling poems now, it's gotten to be kind of a catch-22: sure the crowd here likes it - but aren't we part of the problem?
Re: a comment on Best left unsaid (trust first instincts edit, w/thanks) by ecargo	ecargo 167.219.0.143	24-Jan-06/7:23 AM
I appreciated your suggestions! I don't play around with the layout nearly enough, and I changed a few things simply because the different layout made me realize some weaknesses. So don't take my reversal as any kind of slam on your suggestion. It helped me. A lot. And I'm grateful that you took the time to think about it.
Re: a comment on When God is Needed No More by ALChemy	ecargo 167.219.0.143	24-Jan-06/7:01 AM
Bonus points for the Exorcist reference. ;) I liked your Jabberwockyish poem. Cool.
Re: a comment on A Schizophrenic by amanda_dcosta	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/4:35 AM
By all means write happy when you're happy, sad when you're sad. Just use the right methods to convey your feelings so that others can feel it a little too. Put yourself in the shoes of your subject. That's all I meant.
Re: A Schizophrenic by amanda_dcosta	amanda_dcosta 203.145.159.37	24-Jan-06/1:44 AM
This is more like a struggling mood. I've been struggling to understand a schiz - and its portrayed in how I wrote it. :-)
Re: a comment on A Schizophrenic by amanda_dcosta	amanda_dcosta 203.145.159.37	24-Jan-06/1:42 AM
Alchemy, I think I know what your getting at - more about showing or expressing the schizo mood in scizo terms. But then, correct me if I am wrong, its not necessary that one should be able to write something happy when one is always negative or moody, or a happy person could do vice versa. A lot comes from what's within you, and I find it difficult to express otherwise. I'm terrible at faking... have been caught redhanded many times....ha ha ha.
Re: When God is Needed No More by ALChemy	amanda_dcosta 203.145.159.37	24-Jan-06/1:33 AM
And to you drnick, I'm tempted to say that there's no such thing as live peacefully without religion. These days, man does not rely on God but on his (man's)own capabilities and "brains", all in the name of religion. Put God into the scene and give Him total control and then we'll know the difference. "Take your breath, you return to clay And your plans today come to nothing." Think about this.
Re: When God is Needed No More by ALChemy	amanda_dcosta 203.145.159.37	24-Jan-06/1:30 AM
Alchemy,something quite different but good. I've been reading the comments and must agree that its a bit preachy. But thats how it goes on and off....so no second thoughts to that. I did get the last four lines and thats what gave the punch to the poem when I first read it. I reread the last half to my husband- the part from 'Now children you have grown.....' as that's what gave me the comparisons. I might as well give you a ten... you've given me something to think about.
Re: a comment on Topper Fey by ALChemy	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/1:21 AM
Topper was written first. I don't know, maybe I decided to change the spelling to designate a male and female version of the name like they do in spanish. It's connected. They're both about love and war. It's a lyric so I guess you really need to pick a melody an fit the words into it the best you can but I'll see what I can do about the end.
Re: A Sheep’s Wish by Dovina	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/1:13 AM
Seems like you want them to be anything but rams. Good luck with that.
Re: a comment on A Schizophrenic by amanda_dcosta	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	24-Jan-06/12:58 AM
You may come across the popular poemranker critique "Show us don't tell us" and you'll think "what the hell is that supposed to mean. If so, I feel your pain. It's a generic comment made by those who are too lazy to explain what they mean. What they usually mean is that in some poems you should make the poem take on the characteristics of the subject. If it's a sad poem use sad words and slow rythm. If it's a happy poem use happy words and upbeat rhythm. Think about writing your poem in a parable style like Jesus did with his disciples. Now this isn't always the case. I am perfectly OK with scientific and philosophical approaches to poetry that avoid too much aesthetic imagery and are focussed more on the truth of reality. Anyway I just thought I'd let you know that here, it's a lot about "show".
Re: Topper Fey by ALChemy	amanda_dcosta 203.145.159.37	24-Jan-06/12:57 AM
Al, isn't it supposed to spell Fay rather than Fey? Or is this unconnected to Oh Merry Fay. This piece is pretty good, though i should agree with cyan9 that towards the end it does stand out a bit. Also, punctuating the end of each verse might be needed.