Re: a comment on Better Off Dead by wilco	Dovina 69.175.32.104	9-Dec-05/12:11 PM
Forgiven. May I suggest that if you completely revise a poem, it might be best to post it as a new poem, while not deleting the old version. You could call it XXX (version 2) or something.
Re: a comment on Better Off Dead by wilco	cyan9 84.12.149.195	9-Dec-05/12:06 PM
My reason for deleting your comments on Dark's Nest was that the rewrite was so complete that the commentry made no sense, and so I felt that it should go; but if you are attached this strongly, then I will think a couple more times before removing anything of yours (or others) again. I value the time that people spend, even if I can be touchy to start with, and certainly wouldn't want to lose your input.
Re: Relief (Ventilation Shaft rewrite) by cyan9	Dovina 69.175.32.104	9-Dec-05/12:02 PM
The blacksmith metaphor starts off well, then switches to a lightning/rain metaphor. Suddenly we see a murder where little stories vent to peace (suggesting the title) and ending with a pleasant scene. Then, in the last verse, he seems to reform. Just thought you might like to trace my thought patterns as I read it.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	zodiac 69.132.67.140	9-Dec-05/11:53 AM
"Beware of the present tense." - Peter Davison, Poetry Editor of The Atlantic Monthly.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	9-Dec-05/11:44 AM
Perhaps both of your standpoints are grounded upon a difference of viewpoint. Morality would come into play if I (the observer) were looking at someone else. Past tense would make sense if I were remembering history. Since the observer and the observed are both parts of the same person (as I was thinking when I wrote it) the scene is ongoing, both past and present. I think we each have a part of ourselves that remains detached and open to whatever emerges within our lives. When the mind becomes used to such disconnected freedom, previously suppressed feelings may surface and can be evaluated objectively. I try to calmly observe without judgment. Each emotion will pass like a cloud in the sky to this observer part of me. When I truly become present without judgment, serene acceptance and deep contentment follow. The converse is also true. If I judge myself harshly, condemn or punish for imagined failings, I undermine contentment. It’s part of an ongoing process of accepting myself with the same compassion I would show a child.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	zodiac 69.132.67.140	9-Dec-05/11:30 AM
Kidding. Did you know I'm back in America? This country's not ready for my brand of craziness.
Re: no title by candaliesa	Dovina 69.175.32.104	9-Dec-05/11:29 AM
I think it's best to post your recent work rather than something from 2002. Hopefully, since then you've got your grammar straighter and learned to reduce the number of cliches.
Re: Observer by Dovina	zodiac 69.132.67.140	9-Dec-05/11:26 AM
From a poetry standpoint, I'd simply make all these verbs past tense and fix the rhythm in the last half. Otherwise, good - from a poetry standpoint. From a morality standpoint, as corrupt as ever.
Re: a comment on Better Off Dead by wilco	Dovina 69.175.32.104	9-Dec-05/11:25 AM
You may have noticed that I no longer comment on DancingShamrock's poems except for occasional one-liners. That's because she has a history of deleting comments. You are starting to show the same kind of record, to which I can only say that yiu'll get few comments from me unless you stop at once! Even if yiu revise a poem, and the comments aeem no longer relavent, do not delete them, unless yiu no longer wish to see my comments. I speak only for myself.
Re: a comment on The Third Fall Of Jesus by amanda_dcosta	zodiac 69.132.67.140	9-Dec-05/11:17 AM
http://www.ketzle.com/frost/outout.htm
Re: Relief (Ventilation Shaft rewrite) by cyan9	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	9-Dec-05/10:34 AM
The last verse seems to abandon the blacksmith metaphor completely. I think you may have missed a great opportunity to carry the symbolism through. What if you'd said something along the lines of "For all his wrath in forging a sword to slay his demons he now saw he had beaten the blade and handle flat and was now facing the cross he bore". I know that's kinda cheesy but it was off the top of my head. You see what I'm trying to say though right?
Re: a comment on Relief (Ventilation Shaft rewrite) by cyan9	zodiac 69.132.67.140	9-Dec-05/8:58 AM
At any rate, it's not kosher to say let the poor help themselves. That's my point.
Re: a comment on Relief (Ventilation Shaft rewrite) by cyan9	zodiac 69.132.67.140	9-Dec-05/8:57 AM
1. I like your idea about endless sentences (kind of like the verses in the Stones' "Ventilator Blues"?), but these aren't sentences. And they keep changing focus. And I keep changing focus. It's been a long week, folks. 2. 4 days of partying in preparation for leaving the MidEast, then the flight itself. 3. I've spent the last year-and-a-half trying to help people who won't help themselves. It turns out, they're not in any position to help themselves, that's why they need help. At some point you either decide to do it for them, which is nice, or you let them twist, which is probably fine too until they break into your house and kill you for your stereo or halfcocked revolution.
Re: a comment on Relief (Ventilation Shaft rewrite) by cyan9	cyan9 217.40.63.105	9-Dec-05/8:33 AM
1. As you stated the red forks are streaking, it is long and thats what I want from these sentances, I like the way it lures you in and then suffocates you with there length, until the relief of it finishing, just like venting anger. Your edit things more coherant. 2. I havn't yet, but I will to include some of the comments on it, + I recommended DancingShamrock richen up the language a bit with a line that I badly want to use myself now (Castigating the meat of my accomplishments) then took a look at this and thought that I could do a bit better than red lightning. How come the lack of sleep??? 3. Point taken, I think, I was coming from the perspective of "You cant help someone who wont help themselves", but if you don't try then they will not know how to help themselves, and so you should take it as your responsibility to make people aware that a route to a solution is available, and to help people to get onto/go along it. If you do not make that awareness of the route available then people will not know to take it, and so they are doing the best that they can, since they know no better.
Re: a comment on The Third Fall Of Jesus by amanda_dcosta	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	9-Dec-05/8:31 AM
Story poems seem more often than not to falter in one direction or the other. Either the story takes a back seat or the poetry does.
Re: The Third Fall Of Jesus by amanda_dcosta	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	9-Dec-05/8:28 AM
I've got an idea for the believers out there. Instead of living your life according to the bible, assume that the bible is a metaphor for your life begining with Genesis (your birth) and ending with Revelations (your death). I promise if you study it like this the knowledge of God will start to become your knowledge.
Re: a comment on The Third Fall Of Jesus by amanda_dcosta	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	9-Dec-05/8:21 AM
http://www.geocities.com/oldscotts3/kotter.mp3
Re: a comment on Rub You Out by TLRufener	TLRufener 140.146.204.136	9-Dec-05/8:15 AM
I'm actually glad for all the criticism. The last few poems that I posted were written about three years ago, and it's nice to hear what people have to say I should change about how I write.
Re: Hope by sliver	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	9-Dec-05/7:55 AM
The first stanzas real nice but the others dwindle a bit.
Re: Better Off Dead by wilco	ALChemy 24.74.101.159	9-Dec-05/7:48 AM
Just be glad you don't live were they make paper. It smells like rotten sauerkraut. Lose "that we’ve thrown." Change "leper" (throughs off the poem). Change "paper airplanes"(a little too obscure) to something like "waste-paper". First 3 couplets are the best part of the poem.