Re: a comment on Due Consideration by Dovina	zodiac 69.132.67.140	11-Dec-05/2:26 PM
Yes, it's perfectly obvious that agreeing with you is "admitting" existant conditions, while disagreeing with you is "insisting" on a dangerously-brown guff-track.
Re: a comment on Due Consideration by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	11-Dec-05/2:21 PM
To admit that conditions exist. To insist that conditions exist It's a difference between acceptance and adamance.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	11-Dec-05/2:16 PM
Apparently, you have looked at yourself “with judgment in ALL phases” and find yourself excellent in all. Congratulations on your feeling of moral excellence. You must feel very content in that knowledge. If I were to mention the concept of delusion in this connection, you would say it does not apply to you because you are morally excellent and therefore free from delusion. So I’ll only say that when I back away from myself and observe, I often find moral and other imperfections, (things that are not excellent), and I find that my initial apartness and nonjudgment aid in deriving solutions. Have a contented day.
Re: a comment on Due Consideration by Dovina	zodiac 69.132.67.140	11-Dec-05/2:16 PM
Yes, that's a difference. Another difference is what you think the words "admission" and "insistence" mean.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	-=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. 81.151.150.39	11-Dec-05/1:48 PM
Thank you, Paul.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	-=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. 81.151.150.39	11-Dec-05/1:35 PM
You're talking a load of bollocks. I doubt you've even thought deeply enough about "serene acceptance" to treat it as anything other than a cosy way looking at life. It was only when I pointed out its moral bankruptcy that you had to start spouting things like, "No I actually look at myself without judgment in phase 1, then I look at myself with judgement in phase 2." Well good for you. I look at myself WITH judgement in ALL phases, which is why I've achieved a greater degree of moral excellence than you. The whole "acceptance" exercise is an abdication designed to make you feel better about yourself. "If I judge myself harshly, condemn or punish for imagined failings, I undermine contentment." Of course you undermine contentment. That's what punishment is all about. You're right about one thing, though: many people have reached the same conclusion as you. They're called Cockneys, and if any of them could read, I'm sure they'd have whole shelves full of Gillian Stokes self-help claptrap.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	11-Dec-05/12:38 PM
I’m afraid you have chosen to confuse two obviously different things. Obviously, for two reasons - because the poem does not imply your assertion - and again because I already told you this. Still, I try for patience in these matters and will address your comment. This partly due to your expressed admiration shown through a slight deviation you describe as being ashamed of me. The serenity of which I speak results from separating myself from myself to the extent that I observe my emotions without judgment. After having done this, I find myself in position to evaluate my actions and emotions and to make corrections if needed. These are the two processes, which you have chosen to unite and call, “ignore all your failings in exchange for peace of mind.” If you would like further information, I recommend, “Contentment – Wisdom from around the world,” by Gillian Stokes, not alone by any means, as many of us from many perspectives have reached this conclusion.
Re: a comment on Due Consideration by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	11-Dec-05/12:16 PM
Sad, knowing all we are is regurgitations, specks of excriment. The difference between us lies in admission or insistance, like Dark Angel, that we are in some way excellent.
Re: Due Consideration by Dovina	LilMsLadyPoet 64.12.116.67	11-Dec-05/10:04 AM
An urgent whisper...remind me of one of mine> see new post...lol.
Re: Due Consideration by Dovina	LilMsLadyPoet 64.12.116.67	11-Dec-05/9:56 AM
Oh, didn't get my vote in...sorry!...here I was commenting without voting...oops...thought I had. I have to say all the discussion in this post has been most entertaining...and enlightening. As to my comment of cannibalism: it is not meant as a bad thing; actually taking bits and pieces, ideas, and thoughts that get started, from others, is what fuels the creative fire, so to speak. In this way we feed on others, everyone, and everything. Any writer who states he is not a parasite is a lair. We digest what we read, hear, feel, see, experience, see others experience...and then we write...from where? That depository called the brain. Can we claim everything in there as solely our own?...of course not! How many times I have delved and devoured with hunger what I found within another...with the thought a satisfaction above most others...knowing it had inspired something that I would later revel in...relishing the process of defining or painting within words! I love the challenge of creating something as rich as the situation inspired. LilMsLadyPoet...who eats with sensual relishment...then, with a flourish, licks her fingers clean afterwards!
Re: a comment on Due Consideration by Dovina	LilMsLadyPoet 64.12.116.138	11-Dec-05/9:32 AM
I suspect more of a problem that involves spewing...
Re: a comment on A daisy chain for Nina by Caducus	LilMsLadyPoet 64.12.116.138	11-Dec-05/9:28 AM
Zodiac, no...I didn't know the story...thanks.
Re: a comment on almost missed work by calliope	calliope 70.225.166.245	10-Dec-05/11:57 PM
woke up late but without a hangover to explain it. drove fast, got stopped by a train. gates were about to lift, another train came by slower from the opposite direction(double tracks). but the timeclock at work was set back a few minutes for some odd reason (syncronization of my watch to said clock proved said point). wasnt late. you were so close, i just wasnt wearing a dress.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	-=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. 81.151.150.39	10-Dec-05/6:22 PM
"When I truly become present without judgment, serene acceptance and deep contentment follow." Of course you feel contented. You've deliberately chosen to ignore all your failings in exchange for peace of mind. If observing without judgment isn't divorcing oneself from responsibility, then what is it? It's judgment that separates decent, hardworking people from cockneys. If everyone went around serenely accepting themselves, the incentive for correcting dysfunctional behaviour would have to come from outside. Clearly you aren't old enough to live in anything other than a nanny state. Quite frankly, I'm ashamed of you.
Re: Old Friends by sliver	some deleted user 204.97.18.86	10-Dec-05/4:13 PM
This is an excellent poem.
Re: Hope by sliver	Dovina 69.175.32.104	10-Dec-05/3:27 PM
I've seen that ribbon of ski tracks in the snow and it's said that somebody else is lost too or just maybe somebody knows something I don't. The first verse says it's metaphoric, but the first verse is weak. I like the rest.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	10-Dec-05/3:23 PM
Thanks, Paul.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	10-Dec-05/3:22 PM
Actually, smaller than D, but thanks.
Re: a comment on Observer by Dovina	Dovina 69.175.32.104	10-Dec-05/3:21 PM
As an observer of myself, I do not divorce myself from responsibility. How could you be so naïve as to deduce that? “Condemnation. Punishment. Lowliness.”? How on earth do you gather such conclusions from a person observing herself? Whether you mean them as recommendations or observations doesn’t matter. The observer within me does not “pat herself on the back.” You score 0 for 3.
Re: Hope by sliver	-=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. 81.151.150.39	10-Dec-05/3:17 PM
Needs a little less hope and a lot more sorrow. Just saying "In the midst of my sorrow" isn't enough to convince me -- when you stumble across hope, I end up thinking you don't deserve it.