Lyric № 135905
Romans 8:28
I sit here alone deep in thought
What will my future bring me?
It's so uncertain, and distrought
There's million things that scare me.
There's dreams not met, there's hopelessness,
And feelings of despair
For each time I thread on this path
I'm scared and run away.
Yes, this is life as we see it
Its common where we live
To turn around, and with a bound
to gallop out of reach.
But, when i met my Saviour,
He changed my life around,
He held me with his loving arms,
And carried me right on.
And now I live with courage,
I do not fear the night
For by the name of Jesus
I see the light.
I see the light that guides me
I see the light that shines
Inside me, growing brighter
As with love in me he smiles.
He gives me hope to dream on
He gives me hope to grow
And with each and every passing day
I see him more and more.
I am not scared or worried
My spirit not forlorn
There's radiant plans for me I know
Because I love him so.
96 comments
About the ref. - it is actually "a million", and "tread"...
Sorry, my mistake.
Thanks for the review.... Glad you took interest in it.
Maybe you can give me some logical explanation for believing in God.
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See? Now, for all our sakes, please get off this God is Because Math Works stupidity. Seriously, you sound like a moron.
PS-Happy New Second. Guess God wasn't working too hard when he invented time, huh?
:-)
http://poemranker.com/poem-details.jsp?i
The question was proof of the logical explaination for god, the answers is 1+1=2,it is a simple way to show that the answer is all around us. simple for the faithful, difficult for the wise.
For they search in the deepest of logic, most complicated thoughts while not realising that the answer stares from every little molecule.
the natural order of the universe is chaos and any matter left alone moves towards it. energy is required to bring order into chaos. look at the beautiful rules that guide everything and see the simplicity of it all.
look deep inside you and take a small breath, you will see the light of dovinas statement............
Imagine a universe without intelligent beings. Now suppose that in this universe there's a plum
O
- And another plum
O
Of course, they're not called 'plums', since there's no one there to call them anything. But I think we can agree that for all practical purposes the plums are there and pretty much the same as they are here.* Are you with me? In English, you'd say, 'There are two plums'. 'Two' is only a description of plums, specifically a description of quantity. We could just as easily say 'There are purple plums' or 'There are round plums'. In a universe with no intelligent beings, the descriptions 'two', 'purple' and 'round' wouldn't exist, of course - no language would. But the nature of the plums, the quantity, color, and shape, wouldn't be any different there. You see?
You can also just as easily (and correctly) say 'One plum and one plum means there are two plums', or 'One plum PLUS one plum means two plums'. That's still just description, right? Mathematicians abbreviate those sentence into '1 + 1 = 2'. They all mean the same thing. They're all only language.
I can even do more complicated descriptions. Suppose in our hypothetical universe I have three valleys, each of which have three plums - or,
\ O O O /\ O O O /\ O O O /
In English, I can say 'There are nine plums', or 'Three valleys with three plums in each of them means there are nine plums altogether', or 'Three groups of three plums means nine plums', or '3 x 3 = 9'. All of those statements are essentially equivalent. They're just our language for describing plums. They don't change the nature of the plums.
WHAT I THINK YOU'RE SAYING: One characteristic of intelligent beings that wouldn't exist in an unintelligent (or God-oriented) universe is our tendency to arbitrarily group discrete, unique objects, to say 'There are two PLUMS' instead of, say, 'There is one round purplish thing and one not-so-round reddish-yellow thing'. You'd think that in, um, Heaven, one could only say 'One round purplish thing and one not-round red-yellow thing means only one round purplish thing and one not-round red-yellow thing.' Everything's unique individualness in the eyes of God means no two things can be grouped into 'plums', ergo no numbers and maths.
Bollocks, I say. I can do math descriptions at any level. For instance, 'How many things with color are there? Two.' Or, 'How many different shapes are there? Two.' Or simply, 'How many things are there? Two.'
By the way here's a version of genesis you might enjoy:
http://www.annex.com/glopez/bookof.htm
Hint: I'm not equating the two! Bonus hint: The conversation just worked out that way! Honest injun!
MORAL: God exists because things are logical. God exists if things are illogical.
I think this is because Dovina doesn't have a very good idea about math, language, God, logic or plums. But that's just me.
Amanda, I'm trying. Really I am.
Take whatever position you want, but at least consider that a logical God might be discussable by non-morons.
I hate name-dropping, and here Iâve done it. Thatâs how far youâve drug me down.
PS-Please take note of the God exists because things are logical, God exists if things are illogical comment.
It's easy for me to take a small breath and imagine a universe run by God, though I bet it's nearly impossible for you to take a breath and imagine my idea of universe: where everything runs perfectly reasonably without Him. Does that mean God's better? No, it probably just means He's easier.
Believing in God doesn't really work this way. It as simple as watching a child put his trust in his father and holding his hand to be by his side...for whatever it may be.... a joy ride, a walk, to run through a storm, or to play... it doesn't matter what. I suppose its called 'child-like faith'. The child lets his father decide the course of action , trusting him unconditionally. And no matter what happens, there's a strong bond between father and child....a bond unable to be explained specifically with words but felt intensely through love.
So maybe God exist for the sake of sex and safety. I kinda like that idea. Shouldn't God be blind in the way "love is blind" anyway. "No, your ugly. You can't go to heaven." Seems logical that in that way God should be blind. Why shouldn't a God that created us to think in logical terms(at least aspire to) not make his own existance appear logical? If that child's father told him to go kill his puppy to prove his loyalty to him. if his father watched him being tortured and nailed to a telephone pole and didn't do a thing about it even though he could have ended it emediately. Do you honestly think the child would still trust him? Only if the child was insane. If I told you that the bible you read is one that was rewritten and edited by the multi-god Greeks and Romans and then later by a cruel English monarchy. If I told you some books of the bible are lost forever to us and some passages were entirely invented in later versions of the bible. Would you still call it the word of God and worship the bible(which by the way the bible tells us not to worship objects)? I don't mean to scare or offend you but if the word of God exist then the only place it's truly written is on our souls. I do believe the spirit of God(whatever he is) eminates from the bible as well as others. The Chronicles of Narnia for example or Dante's Devine Comedy.
The childs bond to it's father can be summed up like this: If you drop me I might die but you hold me and feed me and keep me warm so that I don't die so I guess I owe my life to you at least until I'm old enough to live on my own.
Now, I'm about to tell you what God is so hold on.
God is the idea that something exist beyond our capacity of knowledge and the hope that someday we may become a part of that higher level of existance.
The rest of your comment is perfectly good. Why bring logic into it at all? Because the faithful see something like a tsunami and say "How can I force this horrible thing to fit with my idea of a loving God?" The reasonable say "How should I change my idea about tsunamis to fit with this thing?" Does that make us better off? Well, if it's any consolation, you get to go to heaven.
I do know one thing guys our god does not mind discussion or logical attempts to understand him. his mind is wide and i am sure he loves our search for him.
its better to keep wondering where he is and what answers he has for the millions of tears we shed everyday. i believe god follows the rules he has put down for us. when u all discuss things i struggle to see the logic behind things. if we are not his intellectual equals we too would struggle to keep up with him but i think we should not be afraid of lifting the shrouds of mystery.
to the simple it is only about 2 laws but for the complicated, you are needed to remind us of the dust in the pictures of our god. I understand when u say gods written in our souls ,so keep searching he will lead u and me to him in his time.
1. God can do everything.
2. The set of everything includes 'defy gravity'.
3. God can defy gravity.
1. God knows best.
2. God kills 200,000 people incomprehensibly (to us).
3. God knows best.
Provided you accept 'God can do everything' and 'God knows best' as true, it's perfectly easy to understand God and His Works using logic. Most people - including Dovina, most likely - don't really accept those propositions as true, so they think logic doesn't apply to God, and they're in for a world of hurt. Even nonbelievers would do well to consider:
1. God doesn't fit with my idea of the universe.
2. There is possibly a God who can make any kind of universe.
3. The set of any universe includes my universe.
4. There is possibly a God.
1. I am taller than my brother.
2. My brother is six feet tall.
3. Therefore, I'm taller than six feet tall.
Or,
1. All apples are fruits.
2. Meat is not a fruit.
3. Therefore meat is not an apple.
That I'm taller than my brother and that my brother is six feet tall are proveable; we're both in the house, we can measure. That I'm taller than six feet follows naturally. Even things that don't exist can be logical. For example:
1. In an imaginary universe, all snorkbeasts have fangs.
2. Steve does not have fangs.
3. Therefore, Steve is not a snorkbeast.
Bad logic makes one or more mistakes in that process. Easy examples of bad logic are:
1. I'm taller than my brother.
2. My brother is six feet tall.
3. Therefore, I'm older than my brother.
1. I'm taller than everybody.
2. My brother is six feet tall.
3. Therefore, I'm taller than my brother.
1. All apples are fruits.
2. Meat is not an apple.
3. Therefore, meat is not a fruit.
It doesn't make any difference that I AM older and taller than my brother; the logical process getting there is still flawed, because height doesn't really have anything to do with age, and because I'm not taller than everybody. Anyway, that's the short version.
What I've been trying to say is that everybody needs to stop talking about God in the context of logic, because whether you believe in God or not ultimately comes down to whether you accept 'God can do everything' and 'God knows best' as true. There are no possible proofs for those propositions, so in the end you have to just decide to accept them or not based on your own feelings. I'm also saying that if you believe in God, He seems very obvious and things seem very reasonable. But if you don't believe in God, He seems very non-obvious and things seem very reasonable. Logic has nothing to do with it. And trying to 'prove' God with logic is actually disgusting.
Love is patient, kind, never proud or envious, slow to anger and never rude, never keeps account of wrong, does not delight in evil but always rejoices in the truth, sacrifices, always gives, perseveres and never fails. 1 Cor:12
You might have encountered these qualities which have touched your life unconciously and have driven you to believe in God. Look deeper into this and you will really find beauty in the existence of our God. Believe me its all around, coz God's embracing us... feel His presence.
Truth really is that I believe I live in 2 dimensions. The first one is one where logic reigns and God is in the less fancy role as "The Undiscovered". The second dimension is one where logic takes a back seat and God is a baby dreaming and we are figments of his imagination. This place I call Googooville.
What does it say about God you can't look for him in truth?
Happy New Year.
Then why believe in him?
Your answer: I don't know. 'Cause it makes you feel good.
Thank you Zodiac I now believe God must exist.
Human logic is limited. Ultimate knowledge is God.
Forgive me if I sought both. Goodbye human logic, goodbye.
As far as you go dovina, don't you dare change anything. This site just wouldn't be the same without you.
I won't speculate on your motives for arguing this issue so long and hard with zodiac. As for not changing anything, I was considering a new username: Queen_of_the_Logical_Universe.
At least I know you should finish an argument with a woman by telling her how lovely she is or to just say OK dear from the start.
Better leave it at Queen_of_the_Poemranker_Universe.
If anyone fits that title it's you.
Second I was a pool shark once and metaphorically speaking I only said that you were willing to ease up on your game a little so that you didn't leave others feeling insufficient. You know, 'cause you're such a nice guy and all.
1. I'm taller than everybody.
2. My brother is six feet tall.
3. Therefore, I'm taller than my brother.
The fuzzy-logic word here is âtherefore.â Without it, No. 3 would be perfectly logical, and your assertion of its illogic absurd. But âthereforeâ is not totally illogical since it works with Statement 1, and No.2 is irrelevant. Read it without No. 2, and it means the same thing.
Illogic:
Dovina is a moron because she cites 1 + 1 = 2 as evidence for a logical God.
Now I'll cut through all my BS. I'm sure you'll reply bullocks to this but all forms of human conceptual thought involves both elements of faith(assumption) and logic(truth). To assume that we think entirely through logic or believe entirely through faith is delusional, at least in it's practical use in the real world. You can not seperate the two from any human concept as nothing can totally be proven to make it complete logic nor disproved to make it a matter of complete faith.
2) Yes, of course most people use some mix of logic and (blind) faith to get through their lives. I've not suggested otherwise. I personally don't think it's as healthy to use faith as it is to use logic, but then most people are awful at logic, so they're just as well off using faith as sullying the good name of logic. Which they do anyway. If it's any consolation to the faithful, they'll get to go to heaven and I won't.
I think if you got down to it, you'd find that logic and faith aren't as often as odds as you'd expect. Actually, I believe the logical conclusion matches the faithful conclusion in almost every instance where logic applies. In a case where your dog dies and you feel his presence somewhere in the bow'lsphere or whatever, logic doesn't and can't apply. Anyone who has told you so is a bad logician, and disqualified. Ergo, I consider myself a pretty logical person; at least, I base most of my decisions on the best of my logicking abilities; and I think you'll find we agree on most matters not 100% related to faith.
Here's what gets me -
YOU: Nothing can totally be proven to make it complete logic nor disproved to make it a matter of complete faith.
ME: Not true. For example: Under conditions such as those existing in a laboratory on Earth at the present moment, objects falling in a vacuum will accelerate toward the Earth's center at a calculable rate irrespective of their mass = true, logical, and proveable.
2. I feel bored = true, logical, unproveable.
3. God exists = possibly true, unlogical, proveable.
4. There possibly exists a Being who can do everything = true, logical, unproveable.
What allows you to make such grandoise assertions as "nothing can totally be proven to make it complete logic nor disproved to make it a matter of complete faith"?
YOU: Faith.
ME: Okay. Well, then... Um...
First you have to determine when the object started falling. You can't. You can only give a relatively practical number or word to describe when it started falling. It could be that for the first incalculable moments the object is falling that it actually falls at a different rate than the calculated moments.
It probably doesn't fall at a different rate because that would be inconsistant but at a quantum level all sorts of strange things happen.
What allows you to make such grandiose assertions as to say you know things at a quantum level that nobody else does.
YOU: Logic.
ME: + Faith.
The quantum level is a trump card and straw man. Nobody knows for sure what happens at the quantum level, if there is such a thing. No logician or mathematician claims to. That's why, for everyone except poets, "rules" or "laws" of physics are given as long strings of conditions (see my gravity rule above) with plenty of room for as-yet unobserved conditions. That's why we're right and poets aren't.
Maybe we should just start typing "The last word" back and forth until one of us gives up. This brain-fencing can be exhausting.
I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the obvious blunder about the J/H thing yet. My correction to it? God is really Hispanic.
I think Zodiac is close to winning this debate with me though.
You probably know the story about the 'Footprints in the sands of time'. A man walks with God along the sandy shore of life.... there are two sets of footprints.... and all along there's two sets of prints. But during the toughest times in his life, over the rocky edge of the shore leading him through utmost danger to the other side of safety there's only one set of footprints. He feels dismayed and questions God...'Why did you not walk with me. I was depending on you to hold my hand and lead me through, but have only left me alone to struggle on my own.'
' No', says God. 'The footprints that you see and not yours, but mine. It was through those difficult times that I carried you.'
If you knew half the things he did to help unfortunate people you wouldn't be so hard on him when he occasionally lets off steam on Dovina or others. Especialy Dovina:) Just kiddin' D.
There are plenty of good people out there who have never even heard of God. I hope you'll save a seat for them in heaven.
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=89
Knowledge + Love = Wisdom
'the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and to depart from evil is understanding.' Job 28:28
Happy New Year to you. I pray the Lord grant you the answers you're looking for; the answers that will satisfy your logical mind and eager heart. Happy New Year.
it's faith inside what i live for
the poem made love
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