Re: a comment on Ode to Billy Mac by windyone	22-Apr-05/1:16 PM
Try not to post explanatory comments on your poems.
Re: a comment on the solitary tree by bamf909	22-Apr-05/1:09 PM
Yes, all of that is clear, even to Dovina and even without "display yellow cowardice", which (I agree with her) is overstatement. I think you forgot to include purple in your poem, and then forgot that you forgot it. That's just as well. The poem stands as well with "amber waves of grain" but without the cowardice bit or anything purple. Try to avoid the temptation to post explanatory comments on your poem. In the case of this poem it's unnecessary, and even in other cases it's not like you're going to be able to go around explaining your poems to everybody who reads them forever.
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	22-Apr-05/11:33 AM
3) My family is British imported to Ireland in order to oppress your family. Would anybody with any maturity suggest that this justifies your oppression of me? Would anybody with any maturity suggest that your oppression would best take the form of refusing to vote on my poemranker posts? Why not? My family's oppression of yours is contemporaneous with slavery, likely as horrendous, and much more certain than your or my family's association with slavery. In any event, it's horribly perjorative to black suffering (in the past and present) and to blacks living today to propose that black suffering might be even slightly amended by black people's refusal to hire whites or by skipping you at their readings, and to suggest that any reasonable black person would suggest it. Especially considering that MOST blacks know there's just no point to it, it's childish, and nobody alive today really had anything to do with slavery. With Rodney King, yes. With slavery, no. 4) Statistically, blacks have far less power, wealth, freedom, and so on than whites. There is simply no way blacks could realistically oppress whites. What's that? They have poetry readings? They have poetry readings of their own, where they insult whites? So what? Whites own 99% of the world's media, and a good 99.5% of its poetry readings. Most of which, if it touches on race at all, denigrates blacks. That's hardly what I call a situation ripe for black conquest. Suggesting blacks could realistically do anything close to oppression shows at best a colossal ignorance of the inequality still faced by blacks. PS-I was being ironic about the vernal thing. And if you're going to hold me to some sense-making standard, try making a little yourself. A good place to start would be actually reading my comment and responding to what's written there. Replying 'blah blah blah, you sure do talk alot,' is just not going to cut it.
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	22-Apr-05/11:31 AM
NO, NO, NO. LISTEN, NO ONE IS SAYING IT'S THE SAME THING. AND NO ONE'S SAYING BLACKS ARE THE SAME AS WHITES OR WOMEN ARE THE SAME AS MEN. NO ONE. NOBODY. But no one except for you is saying whites or men have the right to tell blacks or women what to do. That's point number one. I'm growing to hate these bulleted lists, but seriously I can't think of another way to get it into your head (or at least keep us on the same page). So here: 1) "Go ahead", "ignore me", etc, TELL YOUR BLACK ADDRESSEES WHAT TO DO. Yes, you assume (and I assume) that's what they want to do in the first place. That's irrelevant. The stanza assumes for one that they're not already doing it (or else why would you tell them?) and for two that they'll care that (or act differently because) you're telling them. Assuming that they're not already doing it is racist because it gives whites a higher place in black thinking, employment considerations, verse, and readings than they have or deserve (i.e., none.) Assuming that they'll care that you're telling them is racist because why the hell should they care? And WHY DO THEY NEED YOUR APPROVAL? Oppression is by definition unrelated to the approval/disapproval of the oppressed. As in the example, I simply haven't any right to tell you how many comments to post tonight. And by telling you to post 25, I'm assuming I have that right/authority; I'm putting myself over you, even if you refuse to acknowledge my authority. Can you seriously not see how? 2) As always, oppression of blacks is not referenced anywhere in the poem except in the past tense. Saying that past events justify black counteroppression of whites but not that current events justify it is racist because it denies a whole continuing slew of injustices against blacks which also ALSO JUSTIFY COUNTEROPPRESSION (if anything does.) It also conveniently distances you, Dovina, from any injustice against blacks. That cannot be the case, if only by the fact of your existing and being white in the world; and in any case it's bad form not to acknowledge that there are bad things YOU might have done.
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	22-Apr-05/10:48 AM
I know you don't, despite that I've tried to point it out in about a half-dozen different ways. You can't say that it favors blacks because (nominally) acknowledges (distant past) white mistakes and offers a kind of compensation. For the last time, suppose I said the following: Go ahead, Dovina, post 25 comments on poemranker tonight. In the Middle Ages, men regularly oppressed women. Now that there's no inequality between men and women, go wild. Yes, I know I'm exaggerating. That's not the point. What would you think about me saying that? Would you think I was feminist? Would you not think one or more of the following? - In the Middle Ages? What the fuck is he talking about? - No inequality? What about women making 70 cents on men's dollar in America? - Who is he to say how many comments I can post on poemranker? - I was going to post 25 comments anyway. In short, would you not feel a little condescended to and indignant? Please, please just answer these questions. PS-No one is seriously suggestiong that saying one race is slightly worse than another justifies favoritism. I don't know where you got that, unless it was from some ironic comment of -=Dark_Angel=-P.I.'s that I've forgotten. If anything, your poem is the only thing justifying favoritism. PPS-I'm not worried about defending -=Dark_Angel=-,P.I.. I'm worried about getting his respect back after mistakenly calling Goad 'as vernal as spring' ages ago.
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	22-Apr-05/10:18 AM
You're way off the mark. Incidentally (and, shamefully, without bothering to consult your past comments), it strikes me that you really started thinking -=Dark_Angel=-,P.I. (or, to a lesser extent, I) was racist because he said a bunch of things like "this poem is as appealing as a refrigerator-truckful of suffocated Negro refugees" - i.e., in terms of bias, something equivalent to your giraffe metaphor. Can I conclude that you're not being ironic, then? Do you even know? PS-As I said below, I think it's unfair to equate a bias with racism, sexism, or whatever. As far as I can tell, people will inevitably have biases. But a more severe bias just doesn't necessarily correspond to more racist behavior. To wit, accept for a minute that -=Dark_Angel=-,P.I. does have a stronger bias toward whites than you (or I) do. Does that mean he (in good faith) writes more poems or comments denigrating blacks than you or I do? Of course not. Your poem is actually racist; his posts are usually just making fun of people who are unknowingly (or hypocritically) racist. PPS-I'm willing to accept that you've totally unknowingly created a racist poem, and to apologize for calling you, rather than the poem, racist. However, I'd say there are probably a lot more unknowing racists, or people who are racist by carelessness, than people who are knowingly racist. If the poem were all I had to go by, I'd have to say you're racist - despite knowing that you're really a decent, loving person. PPPS-I'm writing this way because I'm drunk and have been reading Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel in downtown Amman. How's your Friday night going?
Re: a comment on Trying to get signed? by Damien	22-Apr-05/9:56 AM
You reply to every comment that I have replied to. Plus, you have the advantage of not living in an extremely boring country. At least, as dull as Manchester is, it's not as dull as the Middle East, and right now I'd talk to a talking cow if it meant I could speak English. Re the second bit: Yes, you are. And saying you're wrong about something isn't a negative attitude. Otherwise, I'd just have to agree with every silly thing you said if I wanted keep a positive attitude. Or go find something better to do. Even saying you're wrong about something you dumb motherfucker isn't a negative attitude. Maybe I just like the expression dumb motherfucker. The problem, as I see it, is I'm making conclusions about you based on things you say (like, "Damien never spells or writes grammar correctly" or, "Damien's arguments are hypocritical and incoherent"), while you're making conclusions based on absolutely nothing (like, "zodiac sits around his computer all day", "zodiac is so shallow he has to say something back", or "everybody on this site makes assumptions except me"). Maybe if you took care of that problem, you'd find the attitudes on poemranker a lot less, um, negative.
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	22-Apr-05/9:44 AM
Don't be ashamed. I found three potential problems with the quiz: 1) I think I might have associated good with white more readily because it was the first option given (i.e., whatever the orientation - left or right - given to white/good, I trained myself in the first sections to hit, say, the white button for the response good, and so on.) I know the test worked to reduce that outcome by more-or-less systematically giving every permutation for white, black, good, bad, left, and right - but I don't know how effective it was. (I also wondered if I'd answered something different on the survey bit it might have started me with black/good and white/bad.) In any case, the test is probably only really effective for comparison; i.e., I got moderate preference for white, but Dovina got extreme preference, or something such, so she's more racially biased. 2) I couldn't convince myself that a face I thought was white was really black, and so got an X of shame for the entire test on that particular face. Also, testing only for black/white bias is extremely bunk. Where, then, do you fit a Japanese in the racial scheme of things? 3) I think you're going to disagree, but I think one's (automatic) racial bias rating has very little to do with one's engaging in overt racism - or what I'd simply call racism. For example, you're aware that you're automatically biased toward whites, so you make a conscious (and educated) effort to not say or do racist things, while Dovina, who maybe scores milder on the racial bias test, writes poems such as this one. (The part where I think you'll disagree is defining racism as 'racist actions' rather than 'racial bias'; you've said something to that effect before.) In any event, the test has little bearing on the conversation above. By the way, I've become extremely (and fully self-awarely) prejudiced against Arabs recently. They are, as far as my experience goes, the most predictably and consistently stupid, unimaginative, and unentrepeneurial class of people I've ever met. Now I can't tell if George Bush & Co. really new that or were just racist when they started this whole recent Middle East annihilation business.
Re: a comment on Trying to get signed? by Damien	22-Apr-05/5:21 AM
Of course it is. No one's arguing that. Except you. You're the one who went to the trouble of posting my recent comments, and trying to dis. You're also the one who spends all your time here whining about other people's comments. NEWSFLASH: It's entirely up to EVERYBODY ON POEMRANKER how they express themselves. ANOTHER NEWSFLASH: That doesn't mean no one can call anyone else here 'a hapless fuck.'
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	22-Apr-05/5:15 AM
Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for White People relative to Black People
Re: Stop by [mojo]	22-Apr-05/5:14 AM
Maybe you should post it on your own personal website closed off to other people instead of posting it on a public poetry-reading website, huh?
Re: a comment on Reincarnation by Dovina	22-Apr-05/5:01 AM
I'm extremely disappointed about the whole thing. I'd already told all the Arabs they were going to elect the African guy. If I were Catholic, I'd find it difficult to support the new Pope, especially given that everything he proclaims is bound to be a lot of wash. At least, it's pretty easy to imagine me being skeptical about it considering I'm no longer Catholic. As a Catholic, how do you feel about pooh-poohing Ratzinger?
Re: a comment on Sudden Change by Dovina	22-Apr-05/4:57 AM
Yes there is. For instance (and this is not my, zodiac's, interpretation): This is a story about Paul Reiser being blown by Helen Hunt during an especially drunken 'Mad About You' filming and going blind.
Re: a comment on Trying to get signed? by Damien	22-Apr-05/4:52 AM
Don't assume. All those comments except the first have at least something to do with the poem, and most of them are helpful suggestions (i.e., the comment on Psydeways Tears's poems). By contrast, the comments you've posted on OTHER PEOPLE'S POEMS BESIDES YOUR OWN are: "Sorry I have never rated any of your poems I am just at work when I am on the net. Nice feel although not a dastic subject, plus how can I say anything bad to someone who has offered nothing but support. Keep up the good work and get in contact with me about publishing books as this is a dream of mine. Love the style" "Very nice mouthfull, love the style, great talent and wonderfullllll subject. " "No real movement for me but it does represent what you can do with words." And "Feels like something I would of wrote. I trulty feel the meaning, if only these other "critiques" could see that." Can you honestly say that any of these poems gives a useful suggestion or does anything else except a) give vague fluffy praise, b) trash the poem in a vague, rather fluffy way, or c) trash "critiques"?
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	22-Apr-05/4:45 AM
I don't believe you. Sorry, I'm well-aware this is the comment-equivalent of a spaz.
Re: a comment on Trying to get signed? by Damien	20-Apr-05/3:03 AM
You're a spaz. This is all things YOU'VE SAID.
Re: a comment on Trying to get signed? by Damien	20-Apr-05/2:51 AM
Oh. I don't see why you'd want to be. And you're not, as far as I know, a bamboon anyway. But hey, thanks. Now Damien can think I just made this all up.
Re: a comment on Middle-Aged White Woman by Dovina	20-Apr-05/2:30 AM
2) Consider the alternative: You have almost no experience with blacks, have no education in appropriate ways of talking about blacks, and have pretty much nothing else except a room-filling self-righteousness. If you were trying to be a car-mechanic instead of a poet, you'd be adding cats to the gas tank and using week-old luncheon meat for steering-adjuster. Then, when an actual mechanic tried to tell you that car was never going to run on cats, you'd trump in his face and leap headfirst into a wall. And I don't just "say" I'm more educated than you are [in terms of talking about African-Americans]. I AM more educated than you are [in terms of talking about African-Americans]. That's not in dispute. But no, I'd like to think you'd at least give my comments a chance because they made sense, mainly, and because I had more experience than you in the subject, secondly. 6) Um, yeah. That's why it's called a suggestion. Is what you want this poem to be about essentially, "I, Dovina, am colossally ignorant of anything about blacks at best, and a racist at worst"? 4 [Reprise]) If I told you "Dovina, go ahead, post 25 comments on poemranker today", what would you think?
Re: a comment on My Dumb Choice...YOU by sonawrote	20-Apr-05/2:17 AM
"Lick my ass" is the fiercest and most commonly used Arabic cussword. The next fiercest/most-common is, "God willing, you'll shit oil."
Re: a comment on Reincarnation by Dovina	20-Apr-05/2:14 AM
I do. Oh. Another story about my wife: Not that she spends a lot of time thinking about reincarnation, but a few years ago she got a gift-certificate to a professional Past-Life Regressionist and got hypnotized in order to revisit a past life. She says she had a really intense vision about living in a hut somewhere. The thing she remembers most clearly? That she was wearing an interesting kind of sandals.