Re: a comment on You Have It Backwards by LilMsLadyPoet	16-Dec-05/5:50 PM
"It's a myth to think I don't know what's going on. It's a myth to think that I'm not aware that there's opinions that don't agree with mine, because I'm fully aware of that." —George W. Bush Philadelphia, PA Dec 12, 2005
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/5:04 PM
Yeah, but it seems like she thinks if you're great you've got to have a factory and a penthouse office somewhere. Excuse me if I don't go in for that game.
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/4:24 PM
You're still not getting it. If I said, thousands of studies prove the average dog is brown, you'd answer, I've seen two white dogs myself. I'm glad this conversation's over. I haven't heard you say anything except what you WISH was true. As all those things are what I wish was true, too, I don't feel that I've learned anything new.
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/4:20 PM
Yes, of course. Except it's PROVEN that more academically gifted students are "identified" more often in better-off classrooms, and special needs students are "identified" more often in poorer classrooms. Trust me. My wife is a nationally-known expert in special education. [Ms zodiac: Oh, yes, that's right.] Yes, there are thousands of stories about poor children exceeding their circumstances. NO ONE HAS SAID THIS IS NOT THE CASE. THE CASE IS THAT FOR EVERY DISADVANTAGED STUDENT WHO'S "ACADEMICALLY GIFTED", THREE ADVANTAGED STUDENTS ARE. You cannot disprove that. So, to make sure we're on the same page: 1) Many poor people have high IQs. 2) Many rich people have low IQs. 3) You don't understand what averages mean. 4) You cannot "find a study somewhere" to support any given assumption. For example, YOU, LilMsLadyPoet, cannot find a study to support your assumptions. QED. One assumption you should try finding a study to support is the assumption, "If you start with an assumption, then you can find a study somewhere to support your statement." Good luck.
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/4:07 PM
Oh. Forgive me for trying to place that quote in the context of a discussion on socialism, when you were apparently just talking at random. You can see how I made that mistake: 1. American democracy is moving from idealism. 2. It's moving closer to socialism. 3. Money buys power and presidents. 4. People think democracy means owing people handouts. 5. But it doesn't. 6. Corrupt [and bought] government takes your property to give it as handouts. 7. But that's socialism. Is this not the gist of your aboveposted comment? PS-This is all very swell for one apparently raised on welfare.
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/3:58 PM
Yes, of course. No one here has suggested Ayn Rand wasn't a good writer, wasn't intelligent, wasn't writing from her perspective or for her time, et cetera, et cetera. No one has even said Ayn Rand was simplistic. If you think anyone has said these things, please, please go back and read our messages. At the risk of putting this conversation even further off track, I'll tell you what I don't like about Ayn Rand's ideas: Her books often overwhelmingly measure success (in life, as an egoist, etc) by characters' contributions to INDUSTRY only. I'm not ignoring her books' positively portrayed writers, artists, and even regular businesspeople, but I wish they'd gotten more play (not to mention, come off better in the end). Personally, I consider myself living a satisfactorily Randian life under the radar with my wife and my normal job, without having to measure my greatness by the size of my skyscraper.
Re: Lost Identity by TLRufener	16-Dec-05/3:19 PM
Surely this isn't about us? Oh, dear. You've got us all wrong. We didn't tell you to write like this.
Re: a comment on You Have It Backwards by LilMsLadyPoet	16-Dec-05/3:15 PM
"I have less intellegence (on average)" makes me think you haven't gotten what I'm saying about averages (or intelligence) after all. Same goes for "we all need to get more money if we want our IQ's to rise". Yes, you could say 'I'm being silly', but it would really help if you'd shown us you could answer seriously first.
Re: a comment on You Have It Backwards by LilMsLadyPoet	16-Dec-05/3:12 PM
You've spent the last three days railing against the evils of socialism, but you can't come up with an individualistic way of expressing your mind? The phrase of the people is good enough for you? That's as communist as anything I've seen on this site.
Re: Privacy by Dovina	16-Dec-05/1:10 PM
I'm getting from this that perverts ought to have more privacy, but there's no privacy for anybody. Poor perverts. If you don't think that's what this poem's saying, you might consider (1) punctuating normally and (2) making real sentences (rather than strings of nouns and adjectives) as ways of reducing ambiguity and keeping people from making my mistake. Personally, I think that's an ace thing to write poetry about, and I'm glad to see you taking on more complicated subjects.
Re: a comment on CHRISTMAS EVERYDAY by amanda_dcosta	16-Dec-05/12:29 PM
Not so. I challenge both of you to name another baby besides Jesus that can be described as 'true'.
Re: a comment on The Cowardice of Francis Evans by Caducus	16-Dec-05/10:50 AM
DOVINA: I'm not retarded! What an awful thing to say! So typical of someone like you! ZODIAC: You just accused me of having fits. And of learning a word from a Californian. DOVINA: That's so different! What I'm saying is true, while what you're saying is untrue.
Re: a comment on The Cowardice of Francis Evans by Caducus	16-Dec-05/10:46 AM
You are so retarded.
Re: a comment on CHRISTMAS EVERYDAY by amanda_dcosta	16-Dec-05/7:08 AM
I've tried, amanda, believe me. God only knows how many olive branches I've offered, how callously my advances have been rebuffed. I wonder sometimes why I keep trying. But then I get a glimmer of hope, a sign that, maybe, my efforts are finally paying off, that Dovina can climb off her high horse and rejoin regular, earthbound humanity.
Re: a comment on The Cowardice of Francis Evans by Caducus	16-Dec-05/5:39 AM
I thought you might have meant grass. (to Dovina: hoarfrost - ha!) That's fine. Don't say soil, then. It sounds like you're talking about swords made out of soil. Even 'the grass that the soil waves around like swords' is weak. Just drop the misleading 'soil' altogether.
Re: a comment on You Have It Backwards by LilMsLadyPoet	16-Dec-05/5:37 AM
Surely, even you can see that it sums up SOMEBODY ELSE'S thought.
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/5:32 AM
Why don't you read your Fountainhead Anniversary preface again? A lot of this ground has already been covered. For one, your refusal to hand out is partly what made them thugs. And we're not talking about giving food to Osama; we're talking about giving food to the moderate Muslim before he radicalizes and carries Osama's bomb into, say, Concord Mills (www.concordmills.com ). That's not giving into extortion, since the future bomber is currently not an enemy. My question is, if you can prevent him from becoming an enemy, at a very low cost, isn't that the self-interested thing to do? For two, it's all well and good to be so high-minded, until some guy shoots you for your TV. Roarkian as I'm sure you are, you will not be able to stop him from shooting you. Nor will you be able to stop the bomber from blowing you up in Concord Mills. However you look at it, the self-interested position is to stop him from wanting to kill you before he tries and succeeds. re [North] Korea, etc: Yes, we're conceding tons *after* they've already become an enemy and extortionist. Of course they're going to just ask for more without changing their policies; they have no incentive not to. And yes, there's very little supporting information, as far as world politics go, for the notion that handing out *before* one becomes an enemy works, mostly because governments aren't very good at doing that. There is, however, this: Since 1998, at-risk youth outreach programs in NC have reduced incarcerations for juvenile delinquents by 65%, have lowered recidivism and gang application across the board, and have significantly increased college enrollment by at-risk youth, at the expense of about $8 million (since 1998). That means, for less than 14 cents per year for the last 7 years, you've been able to reduce crime - ie, the risk that you'll have your self-interest compromised by some gun-weilding mugger. What have you got to compare with that? "Give a man a fish" :-( This has nothing to do with wealth=intelligence, and a lot to do, I suspect, with being your pet tirade. Let's go back to what we were originally talking about, okay?
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/4:59 AM
In my opinion, you don't have a very good idea what socialism is. You seem to think it has something to do with money buying power and presidents.
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/4:53 AM
(1) Of course, this is all "opinions". That is, none of this has been confirmed by God to be true. It's not going to be useful to add "In my opinion" to everything we say. (2) That said, it's obvious I've been talking about the best available knowledge on the subject, while you've been talking about what you wish was true. Consider this: If new evidence came out on the matter, I'd revise my opinions accordingly. Yet no amount of evidence, I'd wager, could make you change your opinions on this subject. Does that sound like a very strong position to be coming from?
Re: a comment on Bri's Room (not done) by Sunshine Conkey	16-Dec-05/4:37 AM
No, I'm not saying one should dismiss all of Ayn Rand's ideas. However, if one of Ayn Rand's ideas was that educating people beyond their "intelligence levels" makes them monsters, I think one should dismiss that. I love Ayn Rand, and daresay I've read more of her, and more thoroughly, than you have. But I've come to see most of her ideas as kinda silly and simplistic, or at the very best limited to an antiquated "captains of industry" view of things.