Re: a comment on grim task by lmp	25-Apr-06/6:59 AM
Okay, this will take two comments I think as I can't remember how I arrived at 'weak', it was to do with the word choice though (I think). I see Charon in this, the boatman of Hades. 'Pay' comes from the Latin for 'peace' - peace being attained through death (verse three - 'needlessly for what he seeks', well all he'd have to do is step truly into the underworld to achieve peace, whereas the way he is in his current state is just receiving 6 pieces of silver - a meagre pay. And of course he receives the soul but not to keep). 'Pay' is also for the turning of a boat, which is of course what he transports souls in. Verse four I'm still working on; I shall return with my interpretation of that. Right, back to reading it.
Re: one by Adriaan	25-Apr-06/6:43 AM
Nice lines. The start of line two threw me though, due to the possibility of 'fish' being plural. 'A fish kisses...' would be clearer for the singular, or an adjective instead of the article (I'm not sure why, but to me it would make it easier to read the singular clause than giving no clues until the verb). Alternatively, if you wanted to extend this to a 5-7-5 you could make the fish plural, as if they're acting in unison (becoming 'one') to play up the very zen aspect of this. I like it though.
Re: a comment on Lost and Found by annadoc	25-Apr-06/6:21 AM
Good call. I was wondering what to listen to next, choice made. I agree with the toning down of opposites in here; in my eyes this wants to be rewritten with a more flexible rhythm. N. - I have a story on the way for you, I'll see if I can get it done in time to send to you later today.
Re: a comment on I Sleep by Sunny	24-Apr-06/3:31 PM
I did say that it wasn't directed at you (your poem just happened to be the one I was reading at the time), I didn't accuse you of not commenting, and I didn't say that *all* the poets have gone. But it's a fact that since poemranker was born there have been some fantastic poets here, most of whom have since disappeared. And, lest you think that I'm indulging in undue arrogance here, I certainly don't consider myself to be among the good poets here. I give what I can. If I feel I have a useful and relevant critique to make, I'll make it. If I feel that I don't then I will simply say what I liked/disliked about the piece, and give justification if necessary. Either way though, I am giving. I've been away quite a bit over the last couple of weeks and so haven't been about as much as before, but even so I usually manage to comment on everything or almost everything in the top twenty. As such, I usually get more comments than a lot of people. But even that has dwindled recently. There are still poets from whom a lot can be learned. And I have made a point of saying on various occasions that reading other peoples' poems here and leaving a comment of some sort is also useful for improving your own poetry. But really, we have to make the place more appealing for new poets to come along. And that won't happen while the participation is as low as it is. Not only that, but I doubt many new poets would want to read the sort of tripe that I spout. So how am I going to remedy that? By improving. And if I have to use other sites to improve in order to be better here as well, then so be it. I hope I don't sound like some stuck-up teenage English cock, I probably do though. Sorry to have posted it on your poem; if it's any consolation, more people are likely to read it here. Eugh, I'd better stop before I make even more of an arse of myself.
Re: grim task by lmp	24-Apr-06/3:10 PM
Better word choice and as such the rhythm is stronger. There are so many meanings that could be attached to this; obviously there is the gravedigger, possibly also a very puritanical preacher as well. In fact, it's one of those poems which can have any interpretation applied and justified. That is a sign of a well-written piece, in my book. Actually, that's not entirely true. Poems which are totally grey can be given any interpretation because they're just completely ambiguous. The success here is to make a more colourful poem open to alternative readings (by 'colourful' I mean that it has plenty of images in; the colours invoked are very 'grim and dreary'). I think that every verse in this poem is geared towards 'weak'. I won't try to justify it, but I think you've done the same as I did in my meta-vil. It's possible that you've included deeper meanings, but these take a long time to read into. I think I've done pretty well with the reading so far, and I think you've done very well with the writing.
Re: a comment on I Sleep by Sunny	24-Apr-06/3:01 PM
Dovina - have your comments vanished, or is my browser playing up? (or did I imagine it all...)
Re: a comment on I Sleep by Sunny	24-Apr-06/2:59 PM
I bet it's that Dark Angel larking around again... Did they specify the misconduct?
Re: a comment on I Sleep by Sunny	24-Apr-06/2:49 PM
I don't use anywhere else yet, but the one that ecargo suggested - Eratosphere - looks like a useful place to go. I need somewhere to learn from and that site seems fairly intelligent. I won't leave the ranker though. I love the community (when people are about) and I'd miss the regulars on here (awwwwww). And can you really imagine being without ALChemy, zodiac, -=Dark_Angel=-, ecargo et al? Plus I've taken so much from poemranker that I feel I owe nentwined for that at least. I'm certainly going to be checking out Eratosphere in detail tomorrow though - do let me know of any other sites you come across though, and whether they're worthwhile or not.
Re: a comment on Inbetween Lovers/Blueprint by Ranger	24-Apr-06/2:41 PM
'Painkiller' passage - it's not the painkiller that takes her away, it is the draught. As in, you take painkiller (tablets) with a draught of water, and a draught (breeze) can carry you to the sky. The wings are arms around her, which she knows she can always go to regardless of whoever else she's been away with (awkwardly phrased explanation). Okay, I'm getting too defensive there. I can see the links without problem, but I guess maybe I do throw too many metaphors around. Maybe I should keep them all and expand the poem, or perhaps I'll edit a few out. I'll rewrite this as a completely new poem; I want to keep this version so that I can see where the improvements came from, and generally to compare the two (plus it's got a good score =D). Blueprint - I actually disagree that the language is ordinary. Or if it is, I don't think there's anything in my piece that isn't especially common. No more so than the idea of 'sudden houses'. People might pick out certain words and say 'nobody uses that in everyday speech'. The same with the play on 'draught'. Nobody really uses those sorts of plays. But that's what poetry is, to me. It's a game. It's a challenge to hide things under the surface, to apply double meanings and see if people spot them. Good poetry is when it's made beautiful. Anyway, that's off topic. I will rewrite this after having a good think. Having seen the recent lack of comments on here, I'm not sure I'll get much from posting it on the ranker. Do you use any other sites? I feel like I'm haven't really advanced recently (slight writer's block as well) and could do with learning new tricks.
Re: I Sleep by Sunny	24-Apr-06/2:10 PM
Good poem, but... This is getting silly. The seven most recent poems all have no comments on. There are thirteen votes among the twenty most recent poems. I might even delete this comment if it means that we get a 20-most-recent-full with no comments whatsoever. Surely it's not that difficult to realise that if someone wants to get feedback they're going to have to give some? After all, it's been said more than enough times. You get what you give, and all that jazz. If you're not prepared to give votes and/or comments, what's the point in submitting poems? No attention will be paid to them, until the whole thing becomes redundant. It's a real shame, because a lot of the good poets have left poemranker, and they are the ones who a lot can be learnt from - and the majority of those who do remain have no reason to comment on poems by people who don't participate themselves. If anything, commenting on other peoples' works makes you better as a poet: you learn to give appropriate readings to poetry and you pick up tricks from other poets. But first you have to apply a little time and effort to reading through poems and putting your thoughts down in print. And if you think that you already know enough about poetry to not have to waste valuable time this way, well that's fair enough...so why are you posting it on the internet rather than getting it published? Sorry, Sunny, if this seems like I'm ranting at you - this is a general whinge. I should put it on the Suggestions board but a) wilco got there first, and b) the people who bother to check the suggestions tend not to be the ones at whom this is directed. Is there really that good a reason why it's not possible for people posting to spend a little while giving feedback on the twenty recent entries?
Re: a comment on Murder Phoenix Born (meta-villanelle) by Ranger	20-Apr-06/2:41 AM
Hmm, you might well be right. I'm debating whether 'columnar' or 'columned' would fit better.
Re: a comment on grim task by lmp	20-Apr-06/2:37 AM
Oh, and 'for what he seeks' would feel better to me. Don't be too concerned about making the rhyming lines conform entirely, as that can limit poetry too much sometimes.
Re: a comment on Inbetween Lovers/Blueprint by Ranger	20-Apr-06/2:34 AM
Having said all that, however, I should also say that I'm often hesitant to use 'ordinary' language in any more than minimal quantities. Whereas poetry is partly about detailing life it is also about making an impression. It is about being memorable, and ordinary language very rarely does that. Even the passage I took from Blueprint is not ordinary. Whenever I read a poem I think 'could I have written that?' And if the answer is 'Yes, easily', then I get turned off to the poem. I don't want to find poetic writing easy; I want to test myself. And if that means that I test the readers, then great. The trick is to provide an easily-accessible surface story if I've buried a more complex meaning in the language. It will also mean that I improve my own reading of text. It's no good being able to write well if you can't read well, in my opinion. Anyway, these are just general points, I will spend some time looking at how to incorporate your advice into my writing.
Re: a comment on A Bronze Mule by Dovina	20-Apr-06/2:17 AM
Presumably there's a third rule of three, just to continue the trend. I'd ask how many women you've had, but the impression I've got is that the text box isn't nearly big enough...
Re: The Way of Monsters by MacFrantic	20-Apr-06/2:12 AM
Some awesome lines - 'quips installing', 'Burning smoke for curls concerning', 'Dismay has clasped a frozen fist' (my favourite of the lot), 'Come now hell or come high fire (not far behind). I assume this is about Vikings invading? If so, 'gears' didn't quite fit. Last line of stanza one was good, and was what first made me think of Vikings - then the drink and the fever. In stanza one I felt that the non-rhmying lines were too slow for the quick, rhymed triplets. And I would have preferred for stanza 2 to follow the same scheme, but I'm not complaining too much.
Re: grim task by lmp	20-Apr-06/2:04 AM
Nicely written! I'm of the opinion that poems with complex structures require a careful reading, so I shall make a more detailed comment later today when a) I'm more awake and b) I've thought about this more. In the meantime, here are a couple of minor suggestions: 'he cares to say' would bolster the rhythm a little (in my reading, anyway). 'He does awake...' would work better reworded without the 'does'. It brings nothing grammatically. 'he awakes and *insert passage here* to pray', maybe? And a couple more adjectives would have looked good to me. Good, strong rhyme scheme here. I will return later, hopefully with more to say. In the meantime, here is an 8
Re: a comment on Inbetween Lovers/Blueprint by Ranger	20-Apr-06/1:55 AM
And, of course, thank you for reading and making suggestions. You're right, I do want to improve. And I honestly think I can. That's why I came back.
Re: a comment on Inbetween Lovers/Blueprint by Ranger	20-Apr-06/1:54 AM
Righto, well I gave the connecting theme in my reply above. I'll now explain each stanza. 1) 'Scene-setting'. This is something that the protagonist is dying for her to know, but doesn't dare say it. Silence and invisibility = the old cliche that you never sense what you have until it's not there. Pain killer = the way in which the protagonist is always there afterwards to 'pick up the pieces'. Foreign sun = moon = one night stands/short term relationships (which will inevitably hurt the protagonist as well). 2) He is talking about, essentially, boredom and loneliness when she's away on her jaunts. 'Dream wife I've glimpsed in print' is one hundred percent reality, hence the reference to ALChemy's poem. 3) Despite enjoying brief flings, she also wants that apparently universal desire of women (according to Hollywood, at least) - the knight in shining armour, while all along there's the protagonist right next to her. 4) Continuation of stanza 3, seeing each new lover (the current), and giving in to the knowledge that confessing all this won't do any good whatsoever. It's a monstrously cliched story, but I've tried to practise what I preach and make it original. It'd be quite nice to create new cliches.
Re: a comment on Inbetween Lovers/Blueprint by Ranger	20-Apr-06/1:37 AM
Okay, let's see if I can clarify the meanings in here, and then I'll set about looking at editing this one. I think (having read your comments) in hindsight, that this is more abstract than I first thought it to be. The fact that it doesn't wholly follow the 'obsession' theme of Blueprint might not help my cause here, but I didn't want to just do a rewrite of your work, I wanted to add something to it. The first three lines gave me a headache. 'I should not secretly confess like this [in writing, hidden away]/Love with the lips, you always insisted [open, honest speech and kissing]/But then again, you prefer emotions to be audible [no good being the 'strong and silent' type]. I guess I am going to have to rework this although getting round the structural constraints is going to be tough. After that - yes it does deviate. I thought I could get away with it through the 'silent I' play to connect the two sections, but maybe it didn't work. 'Invisible wings' is actually pretty vital to the piece. I haven't included any filler in this, every line is relevant. I just need to make it a whole lot clearer. Maybe I should title it something like 'The Best Friend's Complaint'. Because that is the idea behind this. It's the traditional tale of 'her best friend being madly in love with her'. Hence the last two or three lines of each stanza, and the storm passage which you picked up on in your next post.
Re: A Bronze Mule by Dovina	19-Apr-06/7:14 AM
Good stuff, although it sounds like you limited your market research to one slightly clueless chap. And grace in defeat means that you may feel humble, but never humiliated. Only suggestion is that in the final stanza, put another task after 'row to plow' - makes it fit with the rule of three. Other than that, good story.