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Dovina @ 17.255.240.138 | 1-May-06/11:43 AM | Reply
Anyone care to comment on Poemranker's demise? Fewer comments per day than ever, it seems. The regulars mostly gone.

Replies:
anonymous @ 213.146.148.199 | 2-May-06/8:40 AM | Reply
The inevitable demise that most instituions go through because of a lack of reinvention.
Dovina @ 17.255.240.6 > anonymous | 2-May-06/10:14 AM | Reply
Try again. Invention comes with every new poem.
anonymous @ 213.146.148.199 > Dovina | 3-May-06/1:44 AM | Reply
Reinvention of the site your wabbling old dog. As far as I can see there has been no capital investment in this site since the addition of the alms link.
anonymous @ 12.72.36.35 > anonymous | 3-May-06/6:52 AM | Reply
That's because it's already good, you blabbering old lunatic.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 | 2-May-06/3:58 PM | Reply
Couldn't say for sure, but it's that point in the year when we tax-dodging students actually have to do some real work...
anonymous @ 167.219.88.140 | 3-May-06/8:53 AM | Reply
Some theories:

1. It's spring. Everyone's outside.

2. People are busy. (I know I am.)

3. Cyclical lull? I dunno. Has this happened before to the extent it's happening now, in the time that you've been posting here?

4. Many of the regulars have since left school (thus limiting their time), have gone to other sites, or have kicked the poetry habit.

5. Creation/promotion of many other poetry sites (e.g., All Poetry) with greater participation leading to the steady, inexorable exodus from this site.

6. Lack of any kind of publicity for the site (it saw a surge in users, I believe, after Yahoo featured it as a chosen site many moons ago; stands to reason that complete lack of exposure means that no one knows of our little blue poetry site).

7. Other? Probably. I think Stephen has a point too, btw. No changes, no attempts to attract users leads to stagnancy.

Hope it turns around. Any ideas? I'm inexplicably fond of this place.
Dovina @ 17.255.240.138 > anonymous | 3-May-06/10:23 AM | Reply
All of those reasons are bunk! If you can name another site where comments and replies to comments are as easily posted, I'd like to know about it. If you know another site where the administration does not medal in the the participant's business, I'd like to know about it. If you can name another site where a simple 1-10 voting system is in place, please tell me.
anonymous @ 167.219.88.140 > Dovina | 3-May-06/12:07 PM | Reply
What the fuck are you on about? All I said (in this discussion) was there are a lot of poetry sites, some of which have drawn 'ranker users away, so relax.

As for your little rant: Any site using a message board structure has the same capabilities to comment and reply as this site. As for the rest--well, it would appear that those "advantages" aren't enough to keep people around, so what does it matter? (Also, it's meddle, not medal, genius.)

Whatever.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > anonymous | 3-May-06/12:24 PM | Reply
Whoa - chill folks... this doesn't need to get heated.

The ranker is probably as good as anywhere else on the net, after all if I'm still learning from the people here (and interested, that's the main thing) then anyone can benefit from being here. But it probably needs more publicity across the net to make people actually aware of its existence. It's proven to have the essential features of a successful site but I don't think people know about it any more. Also, the addition of a 'recommended' list - the best poems of the last week, or month, or however long might make it more interesting for new users.
And yes, alms ought to be sent to kaolin. I intend to when I have some money (ah the joys of studenthood).

Other ideas?
anonymous @ 167.219.88.140 > Ranger | 4-May-06/6:39 AM | Reply
Blessed are the cheesemakers, Ranger. ;)

Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > anonymous | 4-May-06/8:31 AM | Reply
He's not the Messiah...
anonymous @ 213.146.148.199 > Ranger | 4-May-06/9:02 AM | Reply
Is Kaolin still alive? He may have caught his beard in something and have been trapped for weeks! Has his Father killed His son that we might all live? Has Rockmage truly sacrificed his son upon the altar?

What happens if his server goes down? we are all going to be lost, all of Dovina's fantastical trumpings lost to humanity!

Oh well we will just have to content ourselves with other things on the web such as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19bBoA
ALChemy @ 71.75.178.15 > anonymous | 9-May-06/6:20 AM | Reply
Funny, YouTube is where I've been spending most of my net-time lately.
nentwined @ 68.232.253.122 > anonymous | 14-Jun-06/3:09 PM | Reply
Alive.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 | 4-May-06/8:34 AM | Reply
The thing is, it's not a case of no-one visiting here - people are still posting poems at a vast rate of knots. It's just that much of the time more poems are posted than comments. So really it's down to the people already here to give their share of feedback so we keep a decent ratio going. Then people will see more use in the ranker and hopefully more people will join.
That's the theory, anyway...
ALChemy @ 71.75.178.15 | 9-May-06/6:44 AM | Reply
I warned you all months ago. The teeners are coming. They kill all the credibility of sites like these. Bramblestory was a nice site until Junior High hacks and hackers started showing up in droves. There's a kid named Gerald that at one point self voted himself into 7 of the top ten poems. I've read about this happening at numerous other sites around the web. The solution is to be cruel just like we were in the good ol' days and for those of us that have some credentials i.e. degrees in literature to admit to it more. Many really serious about writing are looking for people who are pros to give them advice.
Dovina, make some kind of outlandish statement in one of your next poems, that should bring a few of our old friends out to play.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > ALChemy | 9-May-06/8:17 AM | Reply
The weird thing is that there's not even the vote manipulation any more, nor the angry responses to the slightest criticism. In fact, half the time when you post a critique you don't even get any sort of response to it. If the people on here who don't comment were to start leaving feedback we'd be halfway there, although bringing back the old crew would be even better.
Dovina @ 70.38.78.229 > Ranger | 9-May-06/2:13 PM | Reply
You are the faithful one; the rest of us have yawned and taken naps. I am barely awake.
Dovina @ 70.38.78.229 > ALChemy | 9-May-06/11:21 AM | Reply
Well, I'm glad to see you've come out of the gold-simulating lab. I'd classified you with the quitters, but maybe wrongly.

Where did I ever make an "outlandish statement" in one of my poems - anything worthy of the abuse I've taken. All I've ever said was wholesome and low-fat. And if it takes that sort of thing to jerk them out to play, then you say it. This site needs another martyr.
ALChemy @ 71.75.178.15 > Dovina | 9-May-06/4:17 PM | Reply
Where did I ever say you made an "outlandish statement"?
Dovina @ 70.38.78.229 > ALChemy | 9-May-06/6:51 PM | Reply
Where did I ever say you said that I made an "outlandish statement"?

At least you've come out to play. Why the long sleep? - Rip Van Winkle? Or were in some out-of-body experience in which you have some vivid description of Heaven to tell us about?
ALChemy @ 71.75.176.68 > Dovina | 13-May-06/6:01 AM | Reply
More like an out of internet experience.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > ALChemy | 13-May-06/10:49 AM | Reply
Yeah, I've had a few of them since summer started to appear. I found myself bathed in a bright light, and the air seemed much clearer.
ALChemy @ 71.75.176.68 > Ranger | 13-May-06/1:55 PM | Reply
LOL:) and true too.

Me? I was surrounded by 99 virgins. (ya-know I've always wondered if they stayed virgins. That would sound like hell to me.)
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > ALChemy | 13-May-06/2:34 PM | Reply
Quite honestly I think it's all a scam. It's a hideously ambiguous promise. My bet is that it's the sort that you sign up to and when you get there you'll find that by 'virgin' they meant either:

"A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating."
or
"A person who is born while the sun is in Virgo."

Not only does it suddenly lack the previous appeal, but you've also got to wonder what repercussions it has for biblical narrative interpretation...
ALChemy @ 71.75.176.68 > Ranger | 14-May-06/8:10 AM | Reply
I still think 99 sluts would be alot more fun.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > ALChemy | 14-May-06/9:57 AM | Reply
"I got 99 virgins but the sluts are fun."
ALChemy @ 71.75.176.68 > Ranger | 14-May-06/10:26 AM | Reply
LOL- Sung to the music of Jay-Z's "99 problems" I'm guessing.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > ALChemy | 14-May-06/11:45 AM | Reply
Hell yes - if I knew all the lyrics I'd try parodying it. But I don't, so I'll leave that job to someone with more wit than myself.
Could be a job for 'Everyone', perhaps?
ALChemy @ 71.75.176.68 > Ranger | 16-May-06/7:35 AM | Reply
I'm working on it.
ALChemy @ 71.75.176.68 > ALChemy | 17-May-06/7:26 AM | Reply
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > ALChemy | 17-May-06/9:47 AM | Reply
Superb.
Niphredil @ 132.69.238.35 > ALChemy | 17-May-06/1:13 PM | Reply
Fuckin' A. But then, I already said so.
Blindpoetry @ 70.172.227.111 | 10-May-06/3:51 PM | Reply
I miss the funny conversations.

Then again, I hardly check anymore now do i?
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > Blindpoetry | 15-May-06/1:50 PM | Reply
Does the one above suit your tastes?
anonymous @ 70.172.227.111 > Ranger | 15-May-06/3:04 PM | Reply
Sure

But how often are these?
Dark Angel might have been the most interesting read.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > anonymous | 16-May-06/4:59 AM | Reply
They'd be more regular with extra participation, and particularly now that rockmage is back discussion should start up again.

Dark Angel is certainly the most unique read.
Stephen Robins @ 213.146.148.199 > Ranger | 19-May-06/8:03 AM | Reply
Rockmage is back, oh christ.
Blindpoetry @ 70.172.227.111 > Stephen Robins | 25-May-06/7:58 AM | Reply
ditto
Will he derank every poem again?

That was pretty funny for a few moments, though.
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > Stephen Robins | 1-Jun-06/5:51 AM | Reply
Loved the reaction...
anonymous @ 64.27.6.178 | 14-May-06/4:39 AM | Reply
Ranger @ 62.252.32.15 > anonymous | 15-May-06/1:51 PM | Reply
Profound and thought-provoking.
nentwined @ 68.232.253.122 | 14-Jun-06/3:15 PM | Reply
Maybe some more social features.

Some ajax.

better design?

weeding out folks whose emails bounce?

Always happy not to meddle.

My most immediate projects outside of work are trying to complete the istockphoto application, revisiting my asteroids game (with yet another different set of libraries), and writing... well, sort of.

http://writersplanner.com/ to help me keep track of where things are being submitted... and I got my first pro fiction sale to Strange Horizons--in theory, if things go well, November.
Ranger @ 81.158.152.227 > nentwined | 14-Jun-06/3:32 PM | Reply
Good to see you about, old chap.

As far as the social features go, I couldn't get the chat function to work on Internet Exploder and I don't have Netscape (do use Firefox though, does it work on that?) Could have a private message function or something, maybe. Perhaps with an email alert when someone messages you. I've found the design pretty acceptable thus far, to be honest. It's just a case of getting more publicity for the ranker - letting people know it exists.

Having said that, I think a lot of people are being put off logging in at the moment on account of the few who just liberally smatter insults and low marks on other peoples' poems. I know they have every right to (and the minimal moderation here is a good thing) and I'm not going to try and make them stop, but it does create a less-than-friendly ambience to the place.

Why not combine poemranker with the asteroids game?

Why not do a poll for these suggestions - I'm sure that featureranker.com is still available...

P.S. - best of luck with the publishing.
anonymous @ 213.146.148.199 > Ranger | 15-Jun-06/4:57 AM | Reply
I love you ranger
Ranger @ 81.156.74.33 > anonymous | 19-Jun-06/11:34 AM | Reply
I guess that's a nicer ambience.
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.128 > nentwined | 15-Jun-06/12:47 PM | Reply
Heck, you just might lure some of the Ranker's deserters into this new site of yours.
anonymous @ 68.232.253.122 > ALChemy | 15-Jun-06/12:54 PM | Reply
WritersPlanner, you mean? Just intended to be useful.

Not a place for interaction with other people, as it's currently designed. Too much headache ;)
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.128 > anonymous | 16-Jun-06/1:37 PM | Reply
It seemed like you were building a gateway for people who wanted to publish their work. I think that would be great. You have a knack for making sites that ACTUALLY do help people.
Dovina @ 24.143.67.101 > ALChemy | 17-Jun-06/6:51 PM | Reply
This is the most useable, flexible, potentially friendly, easily manipulated, least meddled with by the administration, poetry site on the internet as far as I know. I don't understand its falling into disuse. "Chat" only works on some computers as Ranger says, but that's hardly the main problem. I wish I could tell you what the problem is.
amanda_dcosta @ 202.164.137.248 > Dovina | 19-Jun-06/8:40 AM | Reply
But then even those who have chat don't use it. Sometimes I wonder why this option was even presented to us in the first place.
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.128 > amanda_dcosta | 20-Jun-06/5:57 AM | Reply
Some of us are just shy I guess. Me? I work at night and sleep during the day so I tend to miss out on the peak hours. Alot of the rankers live in England and America so I'm guessing you're probably asleep during the peak hours too.
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.128 > Dovina | 20-Jun-06/5:48 AM | Reply
I think some of the old members just got tired of it after all the years and moved on. There'll be new poets and if we lure them in with our irresistable charm they might actually stay long enough to reap the rewards. Besides, it's summer in alot of places, people are actually going outside and doing things right now.
nentwined @ 68.232.253.122 > ALChemy | 24-Jun-06/5:36 AM | Reply
Thank you. :) I do like to think so. They're there first and foremost to help me, which tends to be a decent metric. I guess part of my own disuse of poemranker is I think I'm done with tossing my stuff online--except for the toss-offs, I really am interested in getting my own stuff published. After getting a beat-down from mags for a few years, I'll probably come crawling back.
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.128 > nentwined | 24-Jun-06/6:53 AM | Reply
Being published has very little to do with talent. Want proof? I'll offer you 2 words "Anne" and "Rice". If you get her agent you'll have the Pulitzer by next year.
nentwined @ 68.232.253.122 > ALChemy | 25-Jun-06/10:19 PM | Reply
A common enough sentiment, but it takes _something_ or we'd all be famous. Anne Rice's agent must have seen something she thought she could sell. Probably even something he/she could get personally excited about.
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.128 > nentwined | 26-Jun-06/9:40 AM | Reply
You'd make one heck of a politician. You got my vote.
nentwined @ 68.232.253.122 > ALChemy | 26-Jun-06/9:43 AM | Reply
Two more years!
A db C @ 217.40.63.105 | 11-Aug-06/6:50 AM | Reply
Well, Ive posted four pieces up and got one comment/vote over the last few days, so to be honest its not enougth to keep me involved.

I have voted and where appropriate commented on as many peoples work as possible in order to try and ignite some sort of spark with people; but I think the site needs more insentive for people to vote. If the best voters were rewarded with what they are generally looking for (comments) then maybe they might vote a little more, or even have an allowance for the number of poems postable based on the number of votes given.

As for the regulars going, I used to be pretty regular but was using a different user name (cyan9, I hope I havn't broken any rules using a new name but I prefer using my initials now) a few months ago and remember zodiac and alchemy being reliable voters with high quality work, and they seem to have dissapeared which is a bit of a disaster

A problem with poemranker is actually the poemranking itself, most people (myself at times unfortunately) want to receive that little kind of compliment through a high vote and become very irritable when given a low vote for that reason. This substantially restricts a voters range of available ranks to give to the poem, unless they want a fight, I dont think information on who ranks who should be available for this reason (just a number should be given).

I think poemranker has a lot of potential and can lead to some good feedback; but I think these kind of issues may lead to its continued decline.

Ranger @ 86.131.57.119 > A db C | 12-Aug-06/1:22 AM | Reply
Bear in mind that it's summer - people are at their computers less and less at the moment. You'll get the feedback just so long as you're patient. ALChemy's still about; we haven't seen zodiac for some time though :-(
The more comments you post, the more you'll get - trust me.
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.163 > Ranger | 12-Aug-06/8:30 AM | Reply
Shh! He's buried in my basement.
Stephen Robins @ 213.146.148.199 > ALChemy | 14-Aug-06/4:24 AM | Reply
Is that a euphemism?
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.163 > Stephen Robins | 14-Aug-06/9:57 PM | Reply
No, in America which we call that a back door. My back door is in the kitchen where your mum is tossing me a salad while I'm popping some brownies out of the oven for her.
ALChemy @ 71.75.188.163 > A db C | 12-Aug-06/8:32 AM | Reply
Honestly, it's your name that scares me away. I'm dyslexic and every time I see your name it really messes with my head.
anonymous @ 152.18.33.220 | 8-Sep-06/12:39 PM | Reply
Perhaps the people remaining here should try being interesting and knowledgeable, instead of waiting around for British louts or actual poets to come entertain them.
Caducus @ 86.137.20.84 | 9-Sep-06/1:57 AM | Reply
I'm probably an example of why I'm not here as often and more infrequent in my comments.

Once upon a time there was gods wife, zzinnia, horus8 and his many psudonyms, tintagiles, myself and Mr Pig, hell even Ranger was around commenting on every poem entered.

The truth is though I am grateful to nentwined i think other sites copied his such as poetry tetto where the critiques are really constructive and helpful. A cople of the old school have flocked to allpoetry.com - WHY ?

Because its 2006 Dovina and they can upload art with their poems, feature them for points and feed egos as often as they like, enter limitless competitions and get awarded points to promote them.

Its pretty simple really, the apprentices have become the masters and poemranker needs a redux to compete. It used to have credibility but you cannot discriminate against the types of people who join here.

I'd love to see nentwined kick some ass but the sites old and yes the comments are few and as loads of the originals are elsewhere they like me havent the time to committ to 3 other sites for commenting.

I am a shit - yes but am here to admit it, thats business I guess, if there is something better out there people will go there.

I would love to spend the $130 a year to nentwined but its better spent elsewhere.

Where for art thou nentwined?
anonymous @ 152.18.33.197 > Caducus | 9-Sep-06/7:00 AM | Reply
That's not it at all. It's because the site once had a sense of community (like allpoetry does) that very few of you complaining did any contributing to, and that often had very little to do with poetry. If you don't like what poemranker is now, stop looking to nentwined to upgrade it or kick out the high schoolers or whatever and FUCKING MAKE IT WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE. Stope being so dull. Encourage community. Encourage interesting, lively, funny, discussion amongst yourselves (you who are on this thread, for starters), and you'll find not only that interesting, involved people come back or hang around more, but that even some of the prepubescents will fall in line. I swear on everything holy this is true and the only way to save your souls. Forever and ever amen.




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