poemranker ::9/11 by dougsoderstrom

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Haiku № 14307

9/11

by dougsoderstrom

Member since 2002 · Posted 11 Sep 2002 · Edited 13 Sep 2002 · 40 comments

9/11 (and idiot edited for "the idiots" who need help in understanding the meaning of my poem!) Flames spiraling upward into the sky, (refers to the actual event which took place in New York City and Washington DC on September 11, 2001) Blood flowing downward from a cross, (refers to the teachings of Jesus Christ---especially to his exhortation that we should attempt to love "our neighbor"---even perhaps "our enemy"------The radical Moslems, etc.) More mangled bodies lying on the ground? (The "question of the day for America"------should we go to war with and thus invade Iraq which will undoubtedly lead to the deaths of many more innocent human beings, however this time they will be Iraqian human beings-------human beings, all of who have moms, dads, brothers, sisters, sons, or daughters---who have, by the way, also been created in the Image of God).

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40 comments

[2] beakism 11-Sep-02/11:47 AM Reply
nice non-haiku.
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › beakism 13-Sep-02/10:07 AM Reply
Dear breakism:
Please explain to me why what I have written is not a haiku------after having read about what a haiku can be, it turns out that there are many different forms that a haiku can take. So do explain to me why it is not, in your estimation, a haiku.
Thank you, Doug
[2] beakism › dougsoderstrom 13-Sep-02/1:10 PM Reply
Dear drougsoderstrom:
See my response to PAKI's comment, below.
You're welcome, Beakism
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › beakism 13-Sep-02/1:13 PM Reply
Dear beakism:

I appreciate your help. Thank you very much.

Doug
[n/a] deleted user › dougsoderstrom 13-Sep-02/1:19 PM Reply
5-7-5, doug. that's it for haiku. not sure about all the other "forms."
[2] poetandknowit 11-Sep-02/11:53 AM Reply
A 9/11 poem on 9/11 with another 9/11 poem somewhere in here written by the deevil himself. I think it rather bold to try to minimize such a hefty theme into such odd schematics. I wonder if other great tragedies like the holocaust and such went through a period where the writing was generic and over generalized before taking effect in a more personal sense and thus developing its own genre of quality (albeit depressing) literature.
[1] god'swife 11-Sep-02/11:30 PM Reply
I think you really oought to leave this to a poet who might have actually been there. Of course there are those professional hacks who can drum something up for the Prez. or Congress. I don't think they'd pay for this. Infact if we sent this to them they might lock you up for life as a enemy of the state and you'll never even get a chance to defend yourself as a misguided poet.
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › god'swife 13-Sep-02/10:29 AM Reply
Dear God's Wife:

Why the necessity of leaving "this to a poet who might have actually been there?" I am a human being, a citizen of the United States of America, and I have not just the right, but, much more importantly, the responsibility to think through and respond to such an important issue confronting us at this time in the history of our country, as well as, our world------------.

And, by the way, "god's wife," I did send my poem to the President as well as The Vice President of the United States about three days ago!!!!

See ya around,
Doug
[2] poetandknowit › dougsoderstrom 13-Sep-02/10:38 AM Reply
Two lovely fellows I might add.
[1] god'swife 13-Sep-02/9:02 AM Reply
This is awful with or without the explanation. Try expanding the actual so called poem. Also the first image has been so over-used it 's best to avoid it. We allready know what you're talking about since you were foolish enought to title this thing 9/11. Aren't you sick of it yet 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11. It doesn't even have a proper name.
[2] poetandknowit › god'swife 13-Sep-02/9:10 AM Reply
Hey GW 9/11 is going in the new edition of Webster's. Therefore, it does have a too legit to quit name. And those of you looking for an esoteric, heady, or just downright unsensationalized "oh-my-god-did-you-see- the-ABC-glass-trade-towers-as-an-11" look/tribute of the event check out "9/11: Nine Views" running on the Sundance Channel. It is interesting and at times quite poignant. It also shows that expression of the event can be effective without trite sentiment.
[1] god'swife › poetandknowit 13-Sep-02/9:16 AM Reply
I'm not surprised. Thank's for the suggestion. Expression of the event would be more poignant without trite sentiment.
[0] <~> 13-Sep-02/9:05 AM Reply
now, was that really necessary, doug? any of it?
[n/a] Limness 13-Sep-02/9:05 AM Reply
Wow. How poetical. I hadn't realized poemranker was a forum for this kind of thing. Couldn't you have written it in such a way so that it was self-explanatory? Wouldn't that have been the better option, instead of lashing out like this? Honestly, it wasn't very much of an effort. Why be so angry in your defense of it? Did you ever thinkg that they (the idiots, that is, were provoking you because the poem itself does nothing but make them cring? Sorry to be so harsh, but jeez!
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › Limness 13-Sep-02/10:47 AM Reply
Dear Limness:

It is my opinion the poem, as I originally wrote it was rather obvious-----that is, I thought that it would be obvious to the audience here at poemranker.com-----that is, the kind of people who are in to reading and writing poetry. But perhaps I was wrong---the level of sophistication that I expected, may well not "be there'---that is, here at "poemranker."

Perhaps you are correct in regards to why my poem made some folks cringe----perhaps they cringed so because----- they were not smart enough to figure it out, because I apparently sound so much like "a democrat, because Christianity should have nothing to do with what happened on 9/11, because forgiving (that is, trying to understand why) our enemy might want to do such an awful thing to us "as Americans," or because I, as "an American," should not engage myself with (that is, to be concerned about) the possible death of tens, or even perhaps, hundreds of thousands of Iraqians sometime down the line after our President chooses to go to war with Iraq??????

Is that what your comment was referring to, Limness?

Doug
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › Limness 13-Sep-02/12:35 PM Reply
Well limness:

You still do not get it---do you? You say that my poem represents the fact that I am apparently some kind of reactionary. By saying that do you mean to imply that I am somewhat conservative? Well, if so, you totally missed the point of my poem. In fact, I am a Christian Humanist----meaning that I am basically a political liberal (in fact I am very liberal) yet I believe in the ethics of Jesus Christ----in that if one is to be "a Christian" it is very important to want to be as (live as) much like Jesus Christ (or even Buddha or Muhammed, or Khrisna) as one can----even if one is a Moslem, a Hindu, a buddhist, a Jew, or whatever else one might be. As for the poem (given my political and spiritual leanings), I am very much against the idea of George Bush wanting to go and invade Iraq. As I indicate in my poem (the last line, that is), I do not think that we need "more mangled bodies lying on the ground."
And that could well be the result of a war with Iraq, especially if the war were to expand to the rest of the Middle East.

So limness-----do I now make things a little clearer for you in terms who I am (that is the political and spiritual orientation that I have)???
Your Friend,
Doug
[n/a] Limness › dougsoderstrom 13-Sep-02/12:39 PM Reply
Doug, I do very much get it. Maybe if you beat that dead horse a couple more times, people who have never even heard of poemranker will get it too. YOUR POINT HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR. I thought that mine was too: I just don't think you did a good job with this one. Nothing to do with anything else, I just got a little sidetracked. Your poems are much better when there is more emotional distance between you and the topic. That is all. Can we drop this now?
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › Limness 13-Sep-02/12:56 PM Reply
Dear limness:

I would certainly be willing to refrain from beating "the dead horse"-----but as it turned out the horse wasn't yet dead when I was in the process of continuing to beat it.

Also as it turned out my point was not "always clear"---as I feel that you really never did get the point. Based upon my poem, did you really believe that I was "a reactionary conservative" that tended to support George Bush in his desire to go over and invade Iraq???? Honestly, did you really think that? And as for the "emotional part" all of this (that is, regarding what my poem is about), it should be a rather emotional issue, since whatever our President decides to do (in regards to Iraq) could substantially change the rest of our lives as human beings.

Love,
Doug
[n/a] Limness › dougsoderstrom 13-Sep-02/12:58 PM Reply
Thanks for clearing things up.
love, limness.
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › Limness 13-Sep-02/1:05 PM Reply
Dear limness:
Thank you for your kind response. I do appreciate it.
You are, no doubt, a good human being! And the best to you in "our mutual search for immortality" as poets on poemranker.

Love---------------- Your Friend, Doug
[2] poetandknowit 13-Sep-02/9:16 AM Reply
Who's God? Because I kind of look like my Mom and Pops. well hopefully more my mom but as I get older I see my dad, ugh. He was ugly, you know. So are they god? Well my daughters look a bit like me, although my fist one is probably a mutt considering my ex slept with, well she probably even slept with you doug. So, am I god? Wow. You know them CHRISTians are pretty wacky themselves.
[2] poetandknowit 13-Sep-02/11:30 AM Reply
Dear Doug: since I am the house roach here and everybody else seems to have wandered back to their lives I will try to answer your questions. First off, I do not think many of the folks who have responded to your poem lacked an understanding of it. I know that on first read it was quite clear what you were saying, although I did not pinpoint it as Iraq but took it to mean our lovely "war on terrorism." As far as your comment to beaker, technically yes, a haiku is not restricted to the 5/7/5. It is basically an American translation of the haiku. So you are right there, but in almost all cases a haiku is under 17 syllables, which this is not, so he is correct in questioning the style. Also a haiku tends to focus on one image, although the creator of this site will argue that two contrasting images are necessary, which you have incorporated into the poem. Traditionally, using simplistic imagery is what brought about the haiku's depth, but in this case, you not only use burden-laden imagery, but border on cliche. The lovely (oh if you only look like the image I have in my head) God's Wife was making the case that the best artistic works, especially on areas relating to real events are usually best tackled by those who experienced it first hand. I realize we all experienced it first hand in some sort, although I was in bed, but the general philosophy in formalist literary circles is "write what you know, know what you right." As far as your comments to Limeness, I think she, like all of us were a bit amused by the tedious explanation of a poem most of us were well equipped intellectually to understand. It really is not deep or complex at all - simple imagery, simple metaphor, etc. And my comments regarding Christianity were not in reference to the poem, but to the comments. Just trying to keep it real and light. And last but not least, a good majority of the folks on this site are not American and thus were not affected as Americans. So that is always good to remember. 8>pk
[2] beakism › poetandknowit 13-Sep-02/1:09 PM Reply
Indeed, as the learned PAKI has said, while a haiku need not be a rigid 5-7-5, if anything it should be shorter: the brevity is crucial to the feeling; the images in your poem are too wordy to fit the style of the haiku. My encyclopedia suggests that a haiku should be short enough to say comfortable in one breath, which is not the case with your work. 8====D Beakism
[1] [mojo] 13-Sep-02/11:39 AM Reply
What's an Iraqian? Talk about know your enemy ;)
[2] ==Doylum 13-Sep-02/11:49 AM Reply
Explain this?????????????!!! Sorry Dougy but where are you a prof? Do they give degree's away free with every bag of cheesy wotsits?
[2] beakism 13-Sep-02/1:19 PM Reply
doug, I am astounded at your ability to respond to points that were never made. Perhaps if you were more willing to consider criticism, people would accept your arguments; but you seem determined to hide behind the 'sensitive' nature of this poem in an attempt to deflect criticism. But most of the criticism you have received does not concern the subject of the poem (criticism which, I believe, is well justified); instead it attacks the execution of the poem. By posting your poem on this forum you open yourself to criticism, yet you refuse to face it, instead insisting that anybody who dislikes the poem has a problem with yor religion or politics or nationality.
[0] <~> › beakism 13-Sep-02/1:28 PM Reply
beak, I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!!!!!!
[n/a] pete 13-Sep-02/2:07 PM Reply
this haiku sure has a lot of syllables .....
[2] beakism › pete 13-Sep-02/2:08 PM Reply
be wary, pete... as many less fortunate souls have found out, doug gets violent at the first hint of questioning his poetry.
[0] <~> › pete 13-Sep-02/2:10 PM Reply
it's okay pete. we love doug. that makes everything okay.
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. 13-Sep-02/3:06 PM Reply
dougsoderstrom, do you love me?
[2] horus8 13-Sep-02/8:13 PM Reply
lol! more dark angel tom-foolery, or perhaps you left your cupboard door open then stood up to fast? the lord jesu has saved you. save yourself. run. duck. mormon's have drowned more children than john the babtist care for some water?
[1] chinstrap 29-Oct-02/12:17 AM Reply
no haiku.
[n/a] dougsoderstrom › chinstrap 29-Oct-02/5:53 AM Reply
Dear Chinstrap:
Brainstop?
Doug
[10] deleted user 29-Nov-02/4:19 AM Reply
dosnt everyone think 11/9/01 was a good day fro the world? (just thought iwould mention all you american fools put the date wrong)
[4] bondjedi 6-Dec-02/9:28 AM Reply
mawkish and trite. As substantial as a United Way commercial.
[3] roses are read 8-Jan-03/7:19 AM Reply
um...interesting viewpoint (i very much agree with not going to war in irag). one thing...is this really a haiku? i thought the form was 575. maybe i'm reading something wrong.
[5] hipster flare 8-Jan-03/9:49 AM Reply
groovy.
[5] hipster flare 8-Jan-03/9:50 AM Reply
groovy. a bit wordy for a haiku, eh?
[5] Joi 26-Aug-07/11:37 PM Reply
Very insightful words. My oldest son that is 25 now has been to Iraq twice now. God Bless him. I like this poem very much. Good description.