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Haven (Free verse) by cyan9
While silver fruit rots on trees Forage the dry earth, now breath. Shadows coil, twist and yearn, Cogs burr and bats stir in the eaves. Piercing eyes stare from cracks Splits in beams holes in the shack, Voyeurs of the dead machines, Voyeurs in a shed unseen. Hurt dwindled like little burns, little scars, An eye for machinery, an eye fixated upon the stars, Silver by nature, silver by nurture, Silver in the head silver once dead. Clamps and forceps, medical vices held by Wires writhing beneath the leaves, Bonding with smoke like solder, A cloud of love for autumn's disease, A cloud of love for autumn's beauty.

Up the ladder: Narnia Apocalypse
Down the ladder: It don't wanna be summer

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Arithmetic Mean: 5.75
Weighted score: 5.089402
Overall Rank: 6293
Posted: October 24, 2005 6:04 AM PDT; Last modified: October 24, 2005 6:04 AM PDT
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Comments:
[8] zodiac @ 217.144.7.195 | 24-Oct-05/10:33 AM | Reply
Wow. This is like a dictionary of creepy words, but formatted by a post-prime Billy Corgan.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > zodiac | 16-Nov-05/8:16 AM | Reply
If you are going to leave feedback like this on my work, please save your energy, it shows quite a degree of disregard and emotional underdevelopement to see it as a dictionary of words rather than to view and experience the sensations of the scene unfolding. As for being formatted by a post-prime Billy Corgan, this is of no value or use, and looks like you are trying to sound more intelligent than you are. I appreciate the fact that you are giving by commenting and rating poems (which is one better than most people) but please have a think about what you are giving. This comment has served no use to me, and has caused very mild offense, what was the point?
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > cyan9 | 16-Nov-05/10:57 AM | Reply
You pretty much explained his comment without even knowing it.

You're saying to yourself, "What's he talking about?" Of course you are.

Let me show you.

cyan9, If you are going to leave poems like this, please save your energy,(. It) it shows quite a degree of disregard and emotional underdevelopement to see it (your poetry) as a dictionary of words rather than to view and experience the sensations of the scene unfolding. As for being formatted by a post-prime Billy Corgan, this means it's (your poem's) of no value or use, and looks like you are trying to sound more intelligent than you are. I appreciate the fact that you are giving by posting your poems (which is one better than most people) but please have a think about what you are giving. This poem has served no use to me, and has caused very mild offense,(.) what was the point?

Don't worry cyan9. You'll still win the argument because like Jason Voorhees you just won't stop hacking away and die already.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 84.12.150.59 > ALChemy | 16-Nov-05/11:32 AM | Reply
In response to "You're saying to yourself, "What's he talking about?" Of course you are. "

>> I am afraid you are incorrecton this matter, unlike in your closing sentance; I am saying "Surely this underdeveloped and immature poetry snob again". I don't know how old you are, but you really need to mature a few years before engaging with people again. I see that origionality has also fled you, and that you suffer from the same problem as zodiac, you cannot see past the words to the picture that the author is painting for you, whether that be emotional, image based, intellectual... wake up.
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > cyan9 | 16-Nov-05/7:29 PM | Reply
Do you have a degree in anything creative related?

Nope, didn't think so.

You officially have no leg to stand on.
[n/a] Dovina @ 209.247.222.94 > ALChemy | 16-Nov-05/7:30 PM | Reply
I have two legs, and can't stand on either of them for very long.
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > Dovina | 16-Nov-05/7:30 PM | Reply
Drink one for me darlin'.
[n/a] Dovina @ 209.247.222.94 > ALChemy | 16-Nov-05/7:40 PM | Reply
Yez sthir, already dun
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/3:08 AM | Reply
I will take this as a less than serious addition to the less than serious slanging match that we have had, which, irritating and amusing as it has been, should end soon. I have written the response below in retort to the argument that you have given in jest here, rather than you (much as it does use the word ‘you’).I do not expect a response.

This argument is invalid and is a form of submission. You have fielded your uncertainty in yourself by not stating your degree. You have fielded your uncertainty in yourself by not fielding an argument; instead you have tried to force people to believe that your un-stated arguments are more valid, by trying to imply that you have an accolade that you may or may not have received. I have two problems with this:

(i) There is no way of verifying your degree status on the internet; and thus it must be considered invalid. The validity must come from mutual acceptance of the argument.
(ii) By putting yourself at a point at which you believe that your opinions are more valid, since you have a degree, you show that you do not question your own validity in this area, and thus are less credible than a person who does.

I would also query the suggestion that having a degree in an area conventionally considered creative may lead to enhanced appreciation of creativity, especially from what I have seen of so called Doctors in these fields. I would state that from my own personal experience, creativity and its appreciation comes from a combination of self-expansion, pro-activity within ones mind, and humility; most certainly not from time spent in the classroom following curriculum alone. Those that field this kind of argument are revealing that they have placed themselves higher than everyone else, without nothing of substance beneath them, in order to hold them, or break their fall.
[8] zodiac @ 212.118.19.68 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/5:39 AM | Reply
(i) Why not just ask him something only a major in his field would know? If he's not a real graduate and knows it anyway, are you really going to disrespect him for that?

(ii) Saying "You should listen to me on X because I have a degree in X" is bound to only get you swirlied in any crowd.
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > zodiac | 17-Nov-05/6:27 AM | Reply
(ii) Yeah like why should I obay that cop just because he has that shiny badge and all.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/7:04 AM | Reply
(ivxmciii) Allright mofo, move it along.
[8] zodiac @ 217.144.7.195 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/11:17 AM | Reply
I'd like to think I listen to me because I make sense, not because I paid for a degree. I'd also like to think that I make sense.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/5:02 AM | Reply
In all seriousness, what constitutes your background in poetry and creativity?
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/5:23 AM | Reply
I majored in graphic design and illustration. Poetry is just a hobby I've had for about 15 yrs. I mean who majors in poetry anyway?
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/5:25 AM | Reply
You'd have to fool, do you still do either graphic design or illustration.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/5:26 AM | Reply
What i was going to say was:

You'd have to be a fool, do you still do either graphic design or illustration? If so do you have a website?
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/5:51 AM | Reply
I'd love to give you a detailed answer on that but your previous arguement shows that it's a waste of time.

If I told you my name was John Updike would that make a difference.
Sure, you'd say more like Up Johnsdick.

(something a wise man once said)^
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/7:17 AM | Reply
Why not give me a detailed answer but a info@cyan9.com instead. I believe poetry is something that should be fostered within yourself rather than studied. If you want to appreciate new techniques and ideas, then either experiment with old ones, or create new ones for yourself, and do as you heart commands rather than as the lecturer does. I could not bare to study this in a degree, and so opted for a close favourite in computing, where I could at least guarantee that I might get a job. Hence my stance, that you would have to be a fool to study poetry as a majors.

As far as the Updike business goes, don't even try it. It is unverifiable over the internet for starters, and secondly you stated that you were 32 years old, John Updike the writer was born in 1932; unless you are clumsey with your keys, or just plain forgetful, I would be inclined to think otherwise.
[8] zodiac @ 212.118.19.68 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/5:37 AM | Reply
Me. You knew that.
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > zodiac | 17-Nov-05/5:58 AM | Reply
Sorry. But you're one of the few good enough to make a living at it. That's why I don't even bother to give you a score. Students don't grade teachers.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/7:19 AM | Reply
Now I know that you have to be a fool. :->
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/7:49 AM | Reply
I take it the John Updike remark didn't sink in. I've had enough conversations with Zodiac to safely say that most likely all the education and publications he's claimed are true.

Maybe you're right though and maybe you have ESP.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/8:21 AM | Reply
No, not until after I submitted the response. I geuss you were suggesting that if you said you were a famous poet, that might carry more weight; even famous poets can be wrong, and I wouldn't be able to know whether you were one. If you believe zodiac, and if I trusted your opinion, then it could take it one step closer to validity. I do have ESP, but I'm afraid its on my car not in my head (oh dear, I get worse the older I get).
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/8:47 AM | Reply
No it means you don't believe anyone but you knows what they're talking about. This you have validated time and time again. So why even bother to comment on anything of yours whatsoever let alone answer any of your cynical questions.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > ALChemy | 17-Nov-05/9:03 AM | Reply
Not at all, there are many people who I respect but still question, my respect for your knowledge was lost earlier in the discourse and has been regained as we have moved on. When I find people on sites like this who I perceive as trying to be rude for the sake of it, I liken them to myself at 13, when I used to go to chat rooms and be rude for the sake of it (hence the "teenager" lines); I instantly lose respect, since this site is where people post poems where they pour out their hearts, and I believe it is not the place for unneccessary rudeness, rather for constructive criticism put in a considerate and well meaning way and balanced way. I am cynical to you because of the above, and being a poet, and likely an emotional person, you should know better.
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/10:43 AM | Reply
It started with the willow tree poem and your right I should have minded my own business. It wasn't my fight. But I've been here a little while and I've seen what the approach you were taking to the comments has done to others who started here the same way. Sooner or later someone was going to put you through that big arguement we had and believe me I'm one of the nicer ones. Zodiacs a nice guy too but he's been here a long, long time and I figured he was tired of going through it with people.
I do still apologize for butting in. Yes there are some very cruel people here but you'll find they tend to be easy to spot. For an example: http://www.poemranker.com/poem-details.jsp?id=130308

Take it with a grain of salt and a sense of humor. You won't have to tell them they're asses, everyone already knows they are.
Use the eye for an eye approach and make sure it's a zinger with no mistakes. I can see you're already getting much better at that. If you give away your anger (name calling is like a big flashing you're getting to me sign) then they'll pounce on you like wolves. I try to the best of my ability to go by these rules but yes everyone cracks every once in a while so be tough, careful and try to take the highest road. There are definately more people here who are quite kind (but we all have our mean days) than bullies.

Dovina's another nice one. I'm sure you'll grow to love her soon, as we all have.
[8] zodiac @ 212.118.19.68 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/5:29 AM | Reply
In short: I am saving my energy by leaving feedback like this.

I've never thought anyone referencing Billy Corgan was trying to be intelligent, much less that he was intelligent.

The point, I'm genuinely sorry to say, was almost entirely my own amusement, but you should have gotten a picture of going a little too far in the direction of ambiguity, goth, and grammarlessness.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > zodiac | 17-Nov-05/7:24 AM | Reply
What is wrong with ambiguity? ambiguity can lead you down multiple paths from one sentance (I see no fault in that).
Goth/Dark is where I have come from, and am leaving since it no longer reflects my emotions most of the time (and is also somewhat childish). And grammerlessness (deliberate), well that is a bit of a fault, so suggestions rather than complaints would be welcome.
[8] zodiac @ 217.144.7.195 > cyan9 | 17-Nov-05/11:44 AM | Reply
I've always thought there's some confusion between intentional ambiguity (ie, you've thought of many possible reasonable interpretations and approve of all of them) and unintentional ambiguity (ie, you're just being vague and the truth is there's not even one very good interpretation but probably a lot of vague interpretations that the author is sort of gay.) However, the longer I write, the more I feel I'm guilty of the second kind. If I have to make a suggestion I'll say always aim for the first.
[7] <~> @ 167.206.181.179 | 24-Oct-05/11:24 AM | Reply
i want to feel you from the inside.
[n/a] cyan9 @ 217.40.63.105 > <~> | 17-Nov-05/3:08 AM | Reply
Its not an everyday request, but go on....
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