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A Poem (Free verse) by BigB
Slowly he turned, He walked a few paces back to the tree, and lay down in its shade. His mind a blank, Knew all he had was lost. He was satisfied enough to let the ground engulf him, Swallow him to the eternal blackness. The branches hung limply over him, And wept their tears of blood.

Up the ladder: depressed
Down the ladder: word splatter

You must be logged in to leave comments. Vote:

Votes: (green: user, blue: anonymous)
 GraphVotes
10  .. 10
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Arithmetic Mean: 6.5555553
Weighted score: 5.7777777
Overall Rank: 1735
Posted: September 5, 2004 7:30 AM PDT; Last modified: September 5, 2004 7:30 AM PDT
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Comments:
[8] Dovina @ 24.52.157.176 | 5-Sep-04/10:26 AM | Reply
Maybe a more descriptive title might have eased my misunderstanding or failure to know what you mean.
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > Dovina | 6-Sep-04/5:03 PM | Reply
I think it's really excellent that you distinguish between "misunderstanding someone", and "failing to know what someone means".
[8] Dovina @ 24.52.157.176 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 6-Sep-04/5:27 PM | Reply
I'm glad you see the distinction.
[n/a] zodiac @ 213.186.171.49 > Dovina | 8-Sep-04/1:11 AM | Reply
That's not at all what he means. Good work!
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > Dovina | 8-Sep-04/7:24 AM | Reply
I also think it's really excellent that you distinguish between "A more descriptive title might have X" and "Maybe a more descriptive title might have X".
[8] Dovina @ 17.255.240.138 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 8-Sep-04/10:10 AM | Reply
I didn't make that distinction, you did.
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > Dovina | 8-Sep-04/10:46 AM | Reply
Do you distinguish between "A more descriptive title might have eased my misunderstanding" and "Maybe a more descriptive title might have eased my misunderstanding or failure to know what you mean"?
[8] Dovina @ 17.255.240.6 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 8-Sep-04/1:40 PM | Reply
How indistinctively indistinct we are and engrosed with trivia.
[n/a] zodiac @ 217.144.13.23 > Dovina | 8-Sep-04/1:51 PM | Reply
If by "trivia" you mean, "the proper meanings and orderings of words, i.e., the tools used in writing", and "engrosed with" you mean "properly attentive to", then Dear God - shouldn't we all be??!?!?!1?!
[8] Dovina @ 17.255.240.138 > zodiac | 8-Sep-04/5:53 PM | Reply
No. Not in evaluating a comment which we all know the menaning of, and which, like most comments, yours of course excepted, are rattled off without the precision of polished writing. Dear God, have I made myself clear?
There is also a distinction between "A more descriptive title might have X" and "Maybe a more descriptive title might have X".

A. I say: "You might like it". I am saying that there is a possibility of you liking it.

B. I say: "Maybe you might like it". I am saying that there may or may not be a possibility of you liking it.
I know what you're saying, but I'm not sure I agree. The argument boils down to the question of whether or not these two sentences are equivalent:

A. "It is possible that X is possible."
B. "X is possible."

Clearly B implies A - if B is true, then A must also be true. I also think A implies B, but you don't. My reasoning is that when you say something is possible, all you're saying is that you don't KNOW that it is false. If you say "It's possible that X is possible" then clearly you don't know that X is false, so you must think X is possible.

I have been thinking about this problem for some time, and that is the only sensible interpretation I can come up with. The terrible thing is that underneath all this fiddle-faddle is the royally obvious fact that all Dovina was trying to say was "A more descriptive title might have eased my misunderstanding." Perhaps if she had had the common decency to say that in the first place, we all could have avoided a lot of silly bother. Nevertheless, I would be interested to see what people think about this problem, viz. the equivalence of A and B.
I disagree. If B is true, A must be false. If it is a certainty that X is possible (i.e. B), then it is wrong to describe that certainty as a possibility (i.e. A).
P.S. I've never had the pleasure of visiting "mices walk-in internet shop". What's it like?
And besides, what are you doing paying for internet access? For God's sake, man! You're not a tourist, so stop acting like one.
College internet account expired.
Did you get rusticated or sent down?
Handed in. Course finishes after my viva.
Con-grrrrrrr-atttt-yoo-lay-shuns. Do you now intend to sell your time for money? If so, how?

mices is cack. It's on the high street opposite the church thing between Sprint (formerly Harvey's) and The Mitre.
Two propositions x any y are equivalent if, and only if, x implies y AND y implies x.

I think it's obvious that B implies A, but not obvious that A implies B. Both hold in my opinion, though I can understand you disagreeing with the latter - since that was your original argument - but to disagree with the former seems a bit odd.

The case of B implies A: If B is true, then B must be possible. So A is true. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that something which is certain is also possible. Of course it's possible. To say it is possible is a weaker statement than saying it is certain, but it is nonetheless true.
I think we are talking at cross purposes. I am using the phrase "it is possible" to mean "it is a possibility as opposed to a certainty". You are using the phrase "it is possible" to mean "it is within the realms of possibility as opposed to the realms of impossibility". Adopting my meaning, I am correct. Adopting your meaning, you are correct. You can't say fairer than that.
P.S. The real-life Fraser Allonby got married last weekend. He's now on honeymoon in Sardinia.

But there is a distinction between "misunderstanding someone" and "failing to know what someone means".

A. You say: "Ooonscallashihough". You use the word to mean "dung". I think you use the word to mean antelope. I have misunderstood you.

B. You say: "Ooonscallashihough". You use the word to mean "dung". I have never heard the word before and cannot even begin to guess what it means. I fail to know what you mean.

Now do you see the difference? You are an exceptionally foolish young man.
Yes, yes, yes I considered that distinction shortly after posting the comment. In case A it is also the case that you don't know what that person means. So "misunderstanding someone" implies "not knowing what someone means". The converse is not necessarily true, because in case B you haven't understood anything at all, let alone misunderstood anything.

But Dovina says a better title would ease her "misunderstanding or failure to know what you mean". Think carefully about that. Dovina thinks it possible that she has misunderstood the poeme. It would be oafish for her to think that unless she had assigned some meaning to the words. This rules out the case in which Dovina had merely "failed to know what the poeme means without misunderstanding it".
1. Case A involves an incorrect understanding, and case B involves no understanding at all. It may be true that an incorrect understanding is as worthless as no understanding at all, but the distinction still stands.

2. I agree that Dovina manifests an undesirable degree of oafishness in her attempt to exhibit simultaneously two mutually exclusive alternatives .
[8] Dovina @ 24.52.157.176 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 9-Sep-04/12:54 PM | Reply
Going back to my original comment, I could argue that it was only that – a quickly phrased feedback to BigD on how the poem struck me. When you mentioned the “excellence” of my distinction, facetiously no doubt, I looked again and realized I really had said two things in reaction to the poem, not just one, and quipped, “I'm glad you see the distinction.” Notice the two statements I made:

“Maybe a more descriptive title might have eased my misunderstanding,” and

“Maybe a more descriptive title might have eased my failure to know what you mean.”

Admittedly, the word “Maybe” is not needed, so let’s just look at:

“A more descriptive title might have eased my misunderstanding,” and

“A more descriptive title might have eased my failure to know what you mean.”

When I said, “my misunderstanding” I was saying that I had an understanding, but it was wrong. But how could I have known it was wrong? Because I judged my original understanding of the poem to be wrong. I know that because I remember, but you could have known it too, just from the way I phrased it, and maybe you did. When I added, “my failure to know what you mean,” it was a hands-thrown-in-the-air giving up on any more attempts to understand the poem. One reaction came before the other, neither very oafish in retrospect, and linked by the word “or.” So my comment, revised, is: “A more descriptive title might have eased my misunderstanding, then my failure to know what you mean.” Of course, I could dress it up with adjectives and allusions to the poet’s parentage.
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 194.202.58.113 > Dovina | 11-Sep-04/7:58 AM | Reply
You've got a nerve, Dovina. After all the misery your mindlessly verbose style has caused, you still insist on spuming out convoluted interpretations of what was, and always will be, a sentence that went totally tits-up. I can honestly say that in all my years of poemeranking I have never met anyone who went through life with as much prudish disgredard for the thoughts and feelings of others as you. You're a disgrace, and I don't want to look at you for another minute.
[8] Dovina @ 24.52.157.176 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 11-Sep-04/10:16 AM | Reply
Then you agree.
[7] sliver @ 63.190.72.100 | 5-Sep-04/5:01 PM | Reply
I would have to agree w/ Dovina, The crappy title makes me expect a crappy poem, You have a good image here, but you need to knead it a little more.
[6] Blue Magpie @ 212.205.251.70 | 5-Sep-04/9:54 PM | Reply
I also think a better title, or more clarification in the poem would be in order.
[7] New Life Drug @ 69.106.226.24 | 6-Sep-04/12:36 AM | Reply
potential is the word.
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.50 | 7-Sep-04/8:05 AM | Reply
yeah. i'm chinese and i'm 14. i'll take note and improve
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > BigB | 7-Sep-04/9:32 AM | Reply
The following comes from the BBC 'Country Profile' for Singapore:

"The country was referred to - less kindly - by the writer William Gibson as 'Disneyland with the death penalty'."

I find that quote highly amusing. Apparently Singapore has a system of punishments for acts such as not flushing a public lavatory. I wonder, is it illegal to break wind in public?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1143240.stm
[8] Dovina @ 24.52.157.176 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 7-Sep-04/10:56 AM | Reply
The death penalty would provide Disneyland with greater realism, a more life-like experience. And failure to flush is a good place to start. It's a more serious offense than say, riding a bicycle in a bike lane while a mother with her pre-school child turns right without looking.
[n/a] zodiac @ 213.186.171.49 > Dovina | 8-Sep-04/1:10 AM | Reply
Do you know what a turkish toilet is?

I have one.
[10] wFraser Allonby Q.C.w @ 195.157.153.253 > zodiac | 10-Sep-04/1:52 AM | Reply
Hee hoo
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.50 | 7-Sep-04/8:08 AM | Reply
I was in a rush though
[6] Spindle @ 158.83.140.38 > BigB | 7-Sep-04/8:50 AM | Reply
Ok, if you were in such a rush why didn't you just not finish or submit the poem? Wait until you have time to make it the right way.
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.138 | 8-Sep-04/12:39 AM | Reply
we're a small country.we dont have scenery or whatever. the only thing we're proud of is our country's cleanliness.Its really clean though
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > BigB | 8-Sep-04/6:40 AM | Reply
Aren't you proud of Singapore's prosperity?

"Once a colonial outpost, Singapore has developed into one of the world's most prosperous places - with glittering skyscrapers and a thriving port."

P.S. to reply to a comment, click on the green 'Reply' in the bottom right corner of the comment to which you are replying.
[n/a] zodiac @ 217.144.13.71 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 8-Sep-04/6:56 AM | Reply
Or the fact that "Prostitutes carry a yellow health card in Singapore. They must report in 'regularly' for health checks"?

[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > zodiac | 8-Sep-04/8:14 AM | Reply
Ahh... so it's physical cleanliness they care about, not moral cleanliness. Respectable Gentlemen are brutally scolded for leaving public lavatories in a state of mild dumplinghood; meanwhile, prostitutes roam the streets unhampered as the city basks in an unflushed dung-bowl of sleaze.
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.50 | 8-Sep-04/7:45 AM | Reply
NO! that ain't right
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > BigB | 8-Sep-04/8:12 AM | Reply
Is that why you deleted my comment? Or did you click on the X instead of the 'Reply'?
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.50 > -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. | 10-Sep-04/1:20 AM | Reply
i deleted it.
[8] Dovina @ 24.52.157.176 > BigB | 10-Sep-04/11:49 AM | Reply
And did you vote zero on my poem because of my comment on yours?
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.50 > Dovina | 11-Sep-04/6:31 AM | Reply
NOPE! my computer is on all the time, and i dont know who uses it. Neither do i know who has used my account to vote or rate other poems. For that zero, i'm sorry.
[8] Dovina @ 24.52.157.176 > BigB | 11-Sep-04/10:16 AM | Reply
You can change it if you want.
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.50 | 8-Sep-04/8:26 AM | Reply
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1143240.stm
that source is unreliable!!!
the prostitute thing is totally WRONG
[n/a] -=Dark_Angel=-, P.I. @ 81.154.163.133 > BigB | 8-Sep-04/10:07 AM | Reply
As far as I can see, the BBC source doesn't say anything about prositutes. Why don't you have a look at it?

Zodiac brought up the thing about yellow cards from some other source. A google search will reveal a number of sites quoting the yellow card thing. For example:

http://goasia.about.com/cs/singapore/l/aapic032301a.htm

Oh, and for the love of Christ, learn how to reply to comments properly.
[10] wFraser Allonby Q.C.w @ 195.157.153.253 | 9-Sep-04/5:10 AM | Reply
Cunny-sexer.
[n/a] BigB @ 202.156.2.50 | 11-Sep-04/6:28 AM | Reply
ambiguity in a poem is something that makes a poem so beautiful, something that is worth discussing, something worth talking about. We do not live in a black or white society, but rather one that is in shades of gray. everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and nobody can take that away from him. the world we live in is in shades of gray, and for that, I 'm grateful.
[7] deleted user @ 81.178.202.250 > BigB | 11-Sep-04/12:17 PM | Reply
I spend too much time on the internet saying this, but here goes. The vast majority of opinions are pointless because they come from pointless people. That you have the right to an opinion is neither here nor there. Every uneducated lout has the right to an opinion. That is why a cunning system of apartheid has been devised whereby everyone can hold an opinion but noeone listens to stupid people.

Did you ever think that people read poems because they think the poet may have something interesting to say? And that the interesting thing fares best when expressed lucidly.
[7] deleted user @ 81.178.202.250 | 11-Sep-04/12:34 PM | Reply
The poem is not too bad. Line six onward loses the thread a bit. The ground is not likely to engulf him lest still into eternal darkness. And trees do not cry blood.
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