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No More Autumn Poems (Edit) (Other) by Sasha Now that thereâs sweeping on the grass
and leaves lie dumped beside the roads,
the shaken, cold and unclad trees
can have no need of Autumn Odes.
What voice could sing in joy of death
to those who cyclically die?
More leaves are reddening the ground.
Branches are limp and dry
So, seeing leaves let down from boughs
like petals from a twisted stem,
I sing no more than needed for
a requiem.
Up the ladder:
talkstupid
Down the ladder:
Ode to Jack
Votes: (green: user, blue: anonymous)
Arithmetic Mean: 6.25
Posted: November 4, 2004 1:47 PM PST; Last modified: August 21, 2005 4:50 PM PDTWeighted score: 5.1490035 Overall Rank: 5331 Comments:
[9]
zodiac @ 212.118.11.11
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6-Nov-04/5:05 AM
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Reply
The middle verse is overstated and a little poetick. The rest is pretty good.
After feeding the tree all summer, we put on this little show of color, then die. Long live Autumn! Good poem, but I want to be serenaded.
First stanza, about one extra word per line.
that and I see - "about to die" s/b "who's dying" so you can make the rhyming line "leaving branches drying" First line of last stanza - rough. last line, need something before "requiem". Pretty damn close to very good (otherwise I wouldn't bother, friend).
A vivid picture, I felt it all the way through.I've tried three times tonight, just can't write. Sooo, this is what I would do with this. If you like all or any, welcome.
What voice could sing in joy of death Each leaf as it withers and dies fluttering down to mingle with the soil keeping it's host alive. this fitting requiem
I agree with Zodiac the last two lines of verse 2 say pretty much the same thing as verse 1.
Otherwise it's good.
A question for you and Sasha. Is it possible to write good, even great poetry without lyricism or music? Just for my own knowledge.
some would argue yes. It is possible to write what could arguably be called a poem without a single pronounceable word, like some of e.e. cummings.
Sometimes you can deliberately drain the lyricism and music out of a poem if dischord and blandness are its message, as when (sorry to make a reference to russian poetry, but I can't think of another example right now) the greatest Russian poet Alexander Pushkin in his long poem, Eugene Onegin, includes a trite ode written by Vladimir Lensky, one of his characters, to show that Lensky is a mediocre poet.
I find myself leaning toward Mr. Pound whenever he suggests poetry MUST have music, to be true poetry. The one thing I keep coming back to is the lack of music in most of my poems. I think that it is the ONE thing keeping me from growing. Any time I DO have music, it seems forced. Maybe I should study music for a while, no? Thanks for your time.
Forgive me if I'm just arguing semantics, but I believe he meant that a poem must make use of both its sound and its sense. That doesen't necessarily mean a pleasant euphony must be sustained. For example when Yeats mentions "all dishevelled wandering stars" he uses cacophony. Also Emanuel di Pasquale does with "The rain hushes the surface of tin porches." Sappho too when she inserts a single cacophonic line into her Greek stanza to immitate the whirr and flap of Sparrow's wings as they draw Aphrodite's heavenly chariot:
á¼Ïμ' á½ÏαδεύξαιÏαΠκάλοι δέ Ï' á¼Î³Î¿Î½ á½¤ÎºÎµÎµÏ ÏÏÏοῦθοι ÏεÏὶ Î³á¾¶Ï Î¼ÎµÎ»Î±á½·Î½Î±Ï Ïύκνα διννενÏÎµÏ ÏÏá½³Ï' á¼Ï' á½ ÏάνÏἴθε- ÏÎ±Ï Î´Î¹á½° μέÏÏÏ. Had your carriage yoked in a blink to sparrows As they drew you quick as a wink above the Sultry earth, with flaps in a blur, careening, Down from your cover, Yes, that's Greek. And I'm a pretentious precocious little fuck
Pretentious? no. Precocious? No. Polyglot? YUP! But so is Pound. Now, what is it about non american/ english poetry that many poets feel is superior? Yes I'm Pounding again. I really don't care to continue writing the tripe I have been but being an O>T>R driver makes it difficult to get any kind of education. So I'm stuck in a difficult do-it-yourself place. Suggestions?
I don't really feel it's superior, just different. It helps broaden one's exposure to poetry. For example Pound's voice was enhanced by exposure to the dreamy, somewhat non-linear world of Chinese poetry. It's true, there are certain things more abundant in the poetry of some languages than others. For example Russian 19th century poetry has a down-to-earth, quiet and unflashy feel to it. Women in the poetry of that era and before are dark-browed, sweet-featured and tender-voiced. But their faces launch no ships, let alone a thousand. Whereas in English a skylark is, all in the same poem, a "blithe spirit," a "Glow-worm golden in a dell of dew," a "poet hidden in the light of thought," a "rose embowered in its own green leaves" and a "cloud of fire." But as the same poem states "Bird thou never wert.."
I wasn't asked, but I wonder - Do you think the following poem is lyrical and/or musical?
http://www.poems.com/heroimus.htm
In some parts yes.
Now! all three of ya. Get out of my box.
Not your box. Saha's. Now, go ahead, ALChemy, chime in. I know you want to. I'm listening.
Yes and no. When I look for the ass/all modes I find and hear them. When I don't, It sounds like a negative book/movie review.
Probably the most strange combination I've seen to date.
The point I was trying to make is, as far as modern poetry is concerned it is musical. That is, all good modern poetry has a concern with musicality, even if it isn't driven by music. Hardly any of it's in iambic pentameter or end-rhymed, but you can bet most good modern poets are reading their poems over and over and editing for flow, euphony, etc. I spent a very, very long time writing poems in strict rhythm, high formal wording, and exact rhyme trying to get music (actually, the first poems I posted here are the first I ever wrote without precise rhythm, and that was after like eight years of writing.) I think a STRENGTH of modern poetry is that it goes for more subtle music than olden-type poems do. Yeah, it's so subtle you don't see it sometimes, but I think it's there. And if it weren't, you'd notice. Like in most poemranker poems.
*Jumps out window at the rediculousness of the embedding of these comments*
True, but as I said before, there are some parts of cummings where not one word is complete or legible, which leaves one somewhere between a Steely Dan Lyric and President Bush's literacy. Also formal poetry has an appeal to me simply because I like the way it sounds. The disadvantage of nonformal poetry is that you can break with the form to make a point or acheive an effect whereas the best you can do in a nonformal poem is jump into rhyme, which is a lot harder to do tastefully. I know of only one poet (Dana Gioia) who can do so successfully.
Steely Dan / Bush literacy. ACE!!!!! I picked up a book by Cummings flipped it open and thought " my god! this is worse than the O'Hara I'm fumbling with!" and promptly put it back on the shelf. So, the upshot of this conversation is: Generally speaking, better poems have music in them. Thanks guys! 'Preciate your time.
I actually like this one. Not that this matters to you. I know that my "teenage like writting style" isn't what you would consider to be of any valute. So I highly doubt you will care to hear sugg. I might have regarding this poem
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