Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	17-Nov-05/7:17 AM
Why not give me a detailed answer but a info@cyan9.com instead. I believe poetry is something that should be fostered within yourself rather than studied. If you want to appreciate new techniques and ideas, then either experiment with old ones, or create new ones for yourself, and do as you heart commands rather than as the lecturer does. I could not bare to study this in a degree, and so opted for a close favourite in computing, where I could at least guarantee that I might get a job. Hence my stance, that you would have to be a fool to study poetry as a majors. As far as the Updike business goes, don't even try it. It is unverifiable over the internet for starters, and secondly you stated that you were 32 years old, John Updike the writer was born in 1932; unless you are clumsey with your keys, or just plain forgetful, I would be inclined to think otherwise.
Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	17-Nov-05/7:04 AM
(ivxmciii) Allright mofo, move it along.
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/7:02 AM
No Deal. You are welcome and hopefully encouraged to leave anything of reasonable thought, of which you are obviously capable, and as I have said to zodiac, I regard this communication as interesting, worthwhile and positive (although a little annoying to start with).
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/6:58 AM
Point taken. I do recogize my frustration as invalid however, and due to having a short amount of time to appreciate each piece, and my annoyance when in that short time there is nothing to appreciate. As I have stated in my lengthy response elsewhere, I do regard this communication as interesting, and something positive rather than a waste of time.
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/6:54 AM
part 2: Regarding your comments on spelling and punctuation: (1) Perhaps suggesting improvements rather than saying this is poor, could make your opinion seem more qualified, and of use. (2) I have noticed here that you are pre-occupied on what has been, what is stated in books, no wonder everything seems formulaic to you. You disregard my advice to see things for what they are as rarely going over “even when they come from real authors”. You will not be able to understand a large quantity of work nor be able to appreciate other people’s creativity or originality with this mind, if you continue to regard everything as being driven by a formula. An example of this thought is the statement "There's no such thing as continuous verse.", you go for the dictionary, rather than reading and using your imagination to determine what is being said (this is a good example of why I say your appreciation lacks imagination). You have sited on your ‘About’ section, that people should not bother having arguments about originality with you… I assume you’ve had a lot of them, and hopefully over time you may listen to what is said about you. (3) On a more Jovial note, before trying to correct peoples spelling, you may want to check that you are right before hand, for example by looking up the word ‘mana’ as below: mana Dictionary ma•na (mä'nə) n. 1. A supernatural force believed to dwell in a person or sacred object. 2. Power; authority. Is used as a reference to a supernatural force from the sky (not necessarily divine) over: manna Dictionary man•na (măn'ə) n. 1. In the Bible, the food miraculously provided for the Israelites in the wilderness during their flight from Egypt. 2. Spiritual nourishment of divine origin. 3. Something of value that a person receives unexpectedly: viewed the bonus as manna from heaven. 4. The dried exudate of certain plants, as that of the Mediterranean ash tree, formerly used as a laxative. 5. A sweet granular substance excreted on the leaves of plants by certain insects, especially aphids, and often harvested by ants. However in retrospect the definition number 2 above (spiritual nourishment) could have added to the work (if anyone knew this). In regards to: “I feel most of this came across in my first, admittedly cynical message. I highly doubt you'll welcome this feedback, or even read it this far. Do not suggest I lack imagination or ability as far as reading your poem goes. Thanks. Have a nice day.” I will leave the comments about childishness and underdevelopment out in future, but please comment and read with a little more of the thought that you are capable of. In your defence, annoying as this dispute has been, it has provided more of interest that the comments of most, and I would therfore count this dispute in your favour rather than otherwise. And as for the “Have a nice Day”, you are welcome, since I am indeed having a very nice day.
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/6:47 AM
This kind of thought and critique is welcome, it shows that this is less than a petty hack, and more of a criticism that you wish to vigourously defend (either through conviction in your opinion or saving face). I find this piece highly origional (I have never seen another like it), it depicts the way I feel whilst lying in the sun deep in thought, a way of calming my mind. The transportation describes the way I move through states of mind back into calmness after a stormy week. In regards to the comment: "Eminations, vortices, tunnels and such are so often repeated these days" I don’t believe that they are, and have not witnessed such repetition. Perhaps a couple of examples would strengthen your argument. In response to: "Phrases like a "haze of brightness" pull their punches, going for a standard or vague formulation rather than working to evoke an actual image or impression" I would say that the piece describes a period of lazing in the sun (beneath the willow tree (though not mentioned)), starting to evoke the 'power' of thought with the drawing of the symbol in the sky. The transportation and surgery points to the ride and the benefit of this thought; awakening after sorting my head out from a chaotic week. The poem describes the solely the ride, not the cognition, and so avoids bringing individual thoughts or references to thought into the work. I am dubious that you allowed yourself to be taken on this journey, and I believe you have missed the point, that was to describe that ride. I believe it does evoke intense and mind manifesting imagery, a view that is shared by people who have commented on other sites such as allpoetry.com for example.
Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	17-Nov-05/5:26 AM
What i was going to say was: You'd have to be a fool, do you still do either graphic design or illustration? If so do you have a website?
Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	17-Nov-05/5:25 AM
You'd have to fool, do you still do either graphic design or illustration.
Re: Submission by Dovina	17-Nov-05/5:23 AM
Interesting for a poem to go as deep into cybernetics as Lisp programming. The arguement is well put, however the flow has been sacrificed for this (in comparison to your previous work). Also I find that the computing terms you use are not particularly colorful (being computing terms) especially in comparison to some of the more heart ridden moments; putting across a better argument; but a less welcoming poem.
Re: After Fighting (More Blood Edit) by zodiac	17-Nov-05/5:15 AM
The short lived but sweet taste of revenge, well put.
Re: There is a journey tree by ALChemy	17-Nov-05/5:10 AM
Much as we have been arguing on my work, I thought it reasonable to have a look at some of yours and put a few damming comments down there; however, I am pleasantly surprised by the flow and imagery, each word is simple, yet their combination is elegant and shows shapely structure. Underated, with a message delivered well in the last two lines.
Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	17-Nov-05/5:02 AM
In all seriousness, what constitutes your background in poetry and creativity?
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/4:56 AM
Please say, were at the end, before you leave any more of that dreadful story on my pages.
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/4:56 AM
All right, All right, I submit. This argument was vastly more interesting and preferable to this commentry, and people who leave comments such as "nice write".
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/3:10 AM
Are we at an end of the match?
Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	17-Nov-05/3:08 AM
Its not an everyday request, but go on....
Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	17-Nov-05/3:08 AM
I will take this as a less than serious addition to the less than serious slanging match that we have had, which, irritating and amusing as it has been, should end soon. I have written the response below in retort to the argument that you have given in jest here, rather than you (much as it does use the word ‘you’).I do not expect a response. This argument is invalid and is a form of submission. You have fielded your uncertainty in yourself by not stating your degree. You have fielded your uncertainty in yourself by not fielding an argument; instead you have tried to force people to believe that your un-stated arguments are more valid, by trying to imply that you have an accolade that you may or may not have received. I have two problems with this: (i) There is no way of verifying your degree status on the internet; and thus it must be considered invalid. The validity must come from mutual acceptance of the argument. (ii) By putting yourself at a point at which you believe that your opinions are more valid, since you have a degree, you show that you do not question your own validity in this area, and thus are less credible than a person who does. I would also query the suggestion that having a degree in an area conventionally considered creative may lead to enhanced appreciation of creativity, especially from what I have seen of so called Doctors in these fields. I would state that from my own personal experience, creativity and its appreciation comes from a combination of self-expansion, pro-activity within ones mind, and humility; most certainly not from time spent in the classroom following curriculum alone. Those that field this kind of argument are revealing that they have placed themselves higher than everyone else, without nothing of substance beneath them, in order to hold them, or break their fall.
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	17-Nov-05/1:20 AM
In seriousness is this true? (little time for matters of eternity)
Re: a comment on Haven by cyan9	16-Nov-05/11:32 AM
In response to "You're saying to yourself, "What's he talking about?" Of course you are. " >> I am afraid you are incorrecton this matter, unlike in your closing sentance; I am saying "Surely this underdeveloped and immature poetry snob again". I don't know how old you are, but you really need to mature a few years before engaging with people again. I see that origionality has also fled you, and that you suffer from the same problem as zodiac, you cannot see past the words to the picture that the author is painting for you, whether that be emotional, image based, intellectual... wake up.
Re: a comment on Beneath the Willow Tree by cyan9	16-Nov-05/11:23 AM
Piss taking aside: In contrast to what I have just sent over as a comment to you, this kind of commentry and thought is more than welcome compared to untangeable quippets that serve to flame zodiacs mild annoying and invalid mockery. The punctuation is only there to provide appropriate length pauses, its symantic is in the ride it provokes. I would rather steer clear of the colons on the grounds that they invoke a list or parrallel verses; what I am writing is continuous verse, and thus I use semi-colons. I only use quotes in order to quote a person, or to indicate speach; and so again their use is inapropriate here. When you see use of language such as one bright one light, take it for what it is, and what it provokes. Don't get so pent up on the syntax, and concentrate on the semantic and the ride. As far as I am aware there is nothing here that should cause anyone any difficulty in reading, as long as they just let it sink in, rather than fixate upon its syntax. As for the biting comments, I write the comments in spare minutes that I have at work, I have little time to spare to check spelling and punctuation when engaging in slanging matches between teenage poetry snobs. The comments are less snide, but more of a irritated response to the image that you and zodiac have presented. I welcome the chance to receive feedback on my work, and get distinctly annoyed when I receive time waisting comments.