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The Gate of Heaven (Free verse) by TLRufener
I’ve been here before, Standing in the light. I don’t know, Why I’m here. Every time I come, I always get sent away. They have never, Let me pass through. The gate is golden, The ground is soft. I see others, Through the gate. Between the bars, I can see angels. Flying around on wings, Soft and shining. Someday I hope to join them, And share in their fun. But for now, I only dream. For my work here on earth, Is far from being done.

Up the ladder: The Waiting Room
Down the ladder: A Father's Day Late

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Arithmetic Mean: 3.5
Weighted score: 4.928861
Overall Rank: 9301
Posted: November 14, 2005 5:06 PM PST; Last modified: November 14, 2005 5:06 PM PST
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Comments:
[7] Dovina @ 69.175.32.104 | 14-Nov-05/5:13 PM | Reply
You have expressed the Christian view of heaven where the goal is to get there. May I ask why so much more of the Bible is dedicated to glorifying God than to being glorified in heaven.
[n/a] TLRufener @ 140.146.216.76 > Dovina | 14-Nov-05/5:25 PM | Reply
I wrote this a long time ago, when I still half-way believe in Christianity. That was about 12 years ago.
[7] Dovina @ 69.175.32.104 > TLRufener | 14-Nov-05/5:27 PM | Reply
Half-way or not, it seems heaven should not be the goal.
[n/a] TLRufener @ 140.146.216.76 > Dovina | 14-Nov-05/5:35 PM | Reply
It wasn't the goal. I wrote this poem after a friend of mine died. I was very depressed, and this piece was my way of telling myself even though she was gone, I still had work to do.
[7] Dovina @ 69.175.32.104 > TLRufener | 14-Nov-05/5:42 PM | Reply
To carry a loss gracefully is better than theology.
[n/a] TLRufener @ 140.146.216.76 > Dovina | 14-Nov-05/5:44 PM | Reply
I was young and unexperienced. I didn't know then how to carry loss gracefully.
[7] Dovina @ 69.175.32.104 > TLRufener | 14-Nov-05/5:52 PM | Reply
Does anybody, really?
[n/a] TLRufener @ 140.146.216.76 > Dovina | 14-Nov-05/5:53 PM | Reply
No, not really.
[n/a] zodiac @ 217.144.7.195 > Dovina | 15-Nov-05/2:40 AM | Reply
Because glorifying God is a way to get to your goal of heaven. The Bible is not a book about glorifying God, it's a book to tell people how to get into heaven (ie, by glorifying God). God doesn't need a book to be glorified. He's already Glorificus Maximus.

In short: An example of a goal is "Get into heaven". "Glorify God" is not a goal. DancingShamrock is writing a poem about a goal. Do the math.
[7] Dovina @ 69.175.32.104 > zodiac | 15-Nov-05/10:50 AM | Reply
The Bible does not seem to say that the goal of a Christian should be to get into heaven, for that would be selfish, and God wants unselfish glory given to Himself. God can be selfish if he wants to. As near as I can tell from reading the Bible and trying to ignore all that’s said about it, you become a Christian by faith. That means that you decide to experience something new and quite mysterious. It means you must let go of the old, believing that no real loss is involved. In return, God creates a free space into which His Spirit can flow. Take it or leave it, the Bible seems to say, for better or worse.
[n/a] zodiac @ 217.144.7.195 > Dovina | 15-Nov-05/11:10 AM | Reply
Colossians 3
"Rules for Holy Living
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God."

Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God..."

Also consider that many of the times Christ sets out or blesses a way of living, the promised reward is Heaven. As in:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven... Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

BOB: The Kingdom of God/heaven is meant to refer to the earthly kingdom-come, paradise and perfection on earth and so forth.
JIM: I say Christ (and Bible-writers) didn't make any distinction between that heaven and heaven-in-the-sky. And in the eye of the needle passage, at least, Jesus is universally understood as meaning heaven where you go when you die.

BOB: But the Bible's not written to extol the advantages of heaven.

JIM: I think Bible writers probably expected people to know them. But it does lay out a moral code with a promised reward for following it. That reward is heaven.

PS-We've already discussed your heavenless faith dozens of times. I'll respond as I always do: Good for you. Really.
[7] Dovina @ 69.175.32.104 > zodiac | 15-Nov-05/11:21 AM | Reply
I could slam Scripture back at you, but I don't want that kind of arguement. Mine was a summary of thoughts gathered from the Bible, not an Article of Faith.
[n/a] zodiac @ 217.144.7.195 > Dovina | 15-Nov-05/11:41 AM | Reply
Yes, of course you could. Your argument is 'The Bible isn't about getting into heaven.' All you have to do is post a bunch of passages that aren't about getting into heaven.

Except - wait. I already posted a bunch of Bible quotes about how the goal is to get to heaven.

I have no articles of faith, I only summarize the Bible. That's what the preceding comment is. Maybe you accidentally reversed that sentence?
[7] Dovina @ 17.255.240.138 > zodiac | 16-Nov-05/12:56 PM | Reply
To continue this "fight" as Dancing Shamrock called our last debate, is to ask him to delete everything, as he did on the last.
[n/a] TLRufener @ 140.146.216.76 > Dovina | 16-Nov-05/3:21 PM | Reply
I am Woman. Hear me Roar.
[7] Dovina @ 209.247.222.94 > TLRufener | 16-Nov-05/6:54 PM | Reply
You jest, of course. Actually, I don't dig that woman-power, "I am strong, I am woman" stuff. I'm really looking for a man strong enough to dominate me.
[n/a] TLRufener @ 140.146.216.76 > Dovina | 16-Nov-05/8:55 PM | Reply
I just wrote to let you know I was, in fact, a woman; since you refered to me as 'he' and 'him.'
[n/a] ALChemy @ 24.74.101.159 > TLRufener | 17-Nov-05/5:35 AM | Reply
Are you still?

See it's kinda fun DS.
[n/a] zodiac @ 212.118.19.68 > Dovina | 17-Nov-05/5:33 AM | Reply
Are you trumping?
[7] Dovina @ 68.127.85.83 > zodiac | 18-Nov-05/6:37 AM | Reply
In trying to negate the innate difference between us, you miss many points.
[n/a] zodiac @ 217.144.7.195 > Dovina | 18-Nov-05/8:58 AM | Reply
That sentence is wrong on almost every count. You'll probably say I don't understand because I'm a man and therefore bound by reason. Or maybe (and more interestingly) you'll just say "flibbertigibbet".

PS-I found this for you. A gift:
"A man must have experienced all the illness he hopes to cure and all the accidents and circumstances he is to diagnose... Such a man I would trust."
Montaigne
[7] Dovina @ 69.225.179.162 > zodiac | 18-Nov-05/4:26 PM | Reply
I'd hate to give a long thoughtful reply here where Dancing Shamrock will likely soon delete it. I love when you say, "You'll probably answer . . ." because I can usually do just that and fully justify it by one of the various twists offered. But in this case you do not understand bnecause you are not bound by reason.

I would not trust a man so arogant as to say he trumps. Such a man has not learned the contentment of not knowing. - Dovina
[n/a] zodiac @ 212.118.19.155 > Dovina | 18-Nov-05/9:41 PM | Reply
Yes. You must have noticed I'm not all about ending our discussions.

I propose that for the purpose of poemranker, the verb "to trump" always be regarded in its original, perjorative poemranker sense: to make an explosive noise whilst escaping in a cloud of smell.
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