Shuushin23 Mar 2004

Yeah zodiac, about that -

Arrogant and ignorant at once. Nicely done. (Class my ass. Yours just got out of one, what - 2 years ago?).

How you pull an accomplished black poet born in the [19]60's (and still alive pretty sure) into a discussion about sonnets is fairly astonishing

"...for the political purpose of showing that black people can steal white peoples' art forms"

Especially with such a globally idiotic statement about stealing white "peoples" art forms - (!). How nice of you to be PC about not calling it white "men's" - wouldn't want to offend the ladies, now would we?

Hypatia - take this or leave it, cuz I'm done after this, but -

The deal with sonnets is about how it carries *an idea* NOT about the meter or rhyming structure. 14 lines is [nearly] universal, the rest is *certainly* not.

Its about _transformation_. you will see this if you read a few dozen, less if you know what to look for.

What to look for is that they take an idea and build on it, usually in 4 parts.

1. (theme is introduced, 4 lines typical)
2. (theme is developed, 4 lines typ)
3. (theme is exemplified or reflected, 3 lines typ)
4. (a logical or emphatic close, 3 lines typ)

Or, more loosely, "this thing", "is like", "is exactly like" - "THIS". A great sonnet makes these transitions in a transparent way, and may do it without rhyme, or fixed meter.

Yes, some popular types have well defined rules
italian/Petrarchan, sicilian, Elizabethan/Shakespearean/English, Spenserian, Alfred Dorn, etc etc etc - you will find these all over the web. They still perform this transformation.

even 14 lines is up for grabs, btw. George Meredith used sixteen lines, Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote sonnets with 11 lines (ten-and-a-half, really). Lots of others you'll find on the web and in magazines with alternate numbers/counts. There are several contests solely to come up with new sonnet forms.

Even very well-known poets would take traditional sonnets (14 lines iambic pentameter) and mess with the meter (frost, ee cummings, etc).

Sorry for my ramblings but it really bugs me when people put on the blinders and become inflexible when it comes to, OF ALL THINGS, poetry. Its just silly and it comes from people who
just
don't
get
it.

(Racism aside)